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Mexico’s anti-avocado militias

theguardian.com

31–40 of 84 posts

Re: Mexico’s anti-avocado militias

#31
post #24

As a Spaniard, I know México used to do it fine 50, 60, 100 years ago. Ditto with Argentina, albeit the level of violence and social issues are nowhere close to México. What happened?

People didn't care much about politics (and distant future in general), and voted in populists, who basically destroyed the economy.

Re: Mexico’s anti-avocado militias

#32
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're writing first for a UK audience, how they described the incident could be cultural. I can totally imagine some UK people I know writing or speaking about an incident that way. It doesn't mean they're less aware or capable than someone who would write of the same incident differently.

I'm sorry but it objectively reads as incompetence. There's no other way to read it.

danger signals, or what constitutes a dangerous situation, changes from country to country. so if you hop on a jet, drive to some area out and about, it would be easy to be somewhere you are in danger and not realize it.

i had a co-worker from another country talk about going somewhere in an american city, and we were all like 'dude you could have died', he shrugged, said it didn't seem bad.

Re: Mexico’s anti-avocado militias

#33
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is just that avocados farmed without regulatory oversight on illegally deforested (or otherwise occupied) land in regions with insufficient rule of law will be cheaper - same as with palm oil, marijuana ( https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-11/illegal-... ) and several other products...

People would pay extra for ‘conflict-free’ avocados I bet

We have a similar conundrum for coffee, and the "this coffee is ethically good" handling is just complicated. It works at super small scale, for extra invested people. The bigger the scale becomes, the murkier it is, and at some point a vendor is just selling a label with not much reality behind it.

Re: Mexico’s anti-avocado militias

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meat production is still significantly more resource intense, we are cutting down the rainforest to make more room for feed crops.

You don't need feed crops for meat. Historically people used marginal land where crops don't grow to graze animals. (And there is a lot of marginal land, even with modern fertilizers.) Anything else makes no economic sense.

Reality is that more than 99 percent of US meat production facilities are factory farms.

Re: Mexico’s anti-avocado militias

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meat production is still significantly more resource intense, we are cutting down the rainforest to make more room for feed crops.

You don't need feed crops for meat. Historically people used marginal land where crops don't grow to graze animals. (And there is a lot of marginal land, even with modern fertilizers.) Anything else makes no economic sense.

A lot of “economic sense” depends on where you draw the boundaries of your externalities.

If you exclude environmental impact, basic human rights, animal welfare, and social stability, a lot of really short-sighted and destructive setups suddenly start to make “economic sense”.

Re: Mexico’s anti-avocado militias

#36
post #24

As a Spaniard, I know México used to do it fine 50, 60, 100 years ago. Ditto with Argentina, albeit the level of violence and social issues are nowhere close to México. What happened?

I also live in Spain, but my partner is Mexican and I know a number of argentines including one who just spent months travelling in latin america.

She travelled mostly alone, spent many nights sleeping in a van on her own in Mexico and said she felt much safer than in the Buenos Aires area where she used to live before moving to Spain. And Buenos Aires is considered a safe city.

Last time I was in Mexico I never felt in danger[1] despite travelling in some hot areas. I was however told to only drive during daytime and using the main highways. I eructed at the face of a taxi driver who was cut me off while I was crossing a street in Yucatan, I wouldn't have done that in Guanajuato where I would have feared any driver could have pulled a gun.

The only conclusion I can do is that

- they are both very big countries full of contrasts

- there are objective statistical numbers

- but the perception of security/violence is very subjective

- these numbers can vary greatly over a specific time frame.

- the numbers can vary greatly geographically: Chiapas is not Michoacan or Sonora, Cancún is not Mexico City or Buenos Aires. And within big cities there can be a lot of contrasts between neighborhoods, sometimes even inside a single one.

[1] well I did felt in danger, but because of the general state of traffic. Huge trucks driven recklessly by drivers under influcence were my main concerns.

Re: Mexico’s anti-avocado militias

#37

The ecological and political consequences of avocados appears harsh. The article touches on both of these points. But I have no idea how global consumption could be reduced without also causing harm.

What about all the foods that require more water / inputs than avocados?

It's a notion of mixed sentiment that in some strange land, one could be slapped for daring avocado toast.

Maybe the water is an excuse.

Re: Mexico’s anti-avocado militias

#38
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of affirmative action I can fall behind.

"new state apparatus in place. Political parties were banned, and a governing council had been elected..a military force was chartered" Yeah, how does this work? This sounds more like civil war. Admittedly, one side of the war staying to themselves. But, also, break down of any overall government. If Idaho suddenly did this people would freak out, would call it communism, and attack.

> If Idaho suddenly did this people would freak out, would call it communism, and attack.

Well, of course. People would start taking control of their own lives, and we don't want that. What would come next? The right to control their own body? How ludicrous.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/04/23/1246611...

Re: Mexico’s anti-avocado militias

#39
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of affirmative action I can fall behind.

"new state apparatus in place. Political parties were banned, and a governing council had been elected..a military force was chartered" Yeah, how does this work? This sounds more like civil war. Admittedly, one side of the war staying to themselves. But, also, break down of any overall government. If Idaho suddenly did this people would freak out, would call it communism, and attack.

Yes, on the one hand, on the other seems like the Mexican constitution allows for self governance of indigenous communities and they have gone that route first by the sword and then through legal means.

I like this setup. It's like an different take on "laboratories of democracy".

Re: Mexico’s anti-avocado militias

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meat production is still significantly more resource intense, we are cutting down the rainforest to make more room for feed crops.

You don't need feed crops for meat. Historically people used marginal land where crops don't grow to graze animals. (And there is a lot of marginal land, even with modern fertilizers.) Anything else makes no economic sense.

You technically don’t need them if people would consume reasonable amount of animal products, which they don’t. In the actual real world we all live in the vast majority of meat comes from factory farms whose entire existence relies on feed crops and antibiotics abuse.

And feed crops are often from questionable origins.

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