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Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

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Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#381

Post by constantcrying »

GJim wrote: post #378
alfalfasprout wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're also putting Europe on a pedestal. In many urban areas (where the majority of the population lives) it's no longer safe for kids to walk + bike to school freely. Not necessarily because of cars but significant crime.

> but significant crime The crime that has been *falling* throughout the entire western world after peaking in the mid 1990's ?

>The crime that has been falling throughout the entire western world after peaking in the mid 1990's ?

crime=/=crime

The park were we hung out as kids is now inhabited by drug dealers. Obviously no place for kids, or families or basically anyone else, I will try to avoid if I reasonably can. And of course there was no increase in statistical crime, as it just is not getting prosecuted, although it is clear as day that it is happening.

Crime stats are hugely misleading if you want to figure out what a social environment looks like.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#382

Post by bedobi »

throwaway7ahgb wrote: post #301
carlosjobim wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a certain maturity, kids have developed mentally enough for cars to not be a threat to them. Criminals are a whole different problem.

It's more that as a society we have agreed to a certain amount of risk that cars bring, because they have some positive value ( risk to value ratio will be debated ). Criminals bring 0 value and all risk. Criminals also do more than just murder.

Roads, cars and trucks bring a lot of value for the disabled, deliveries and emergency vehicles who really need them. What like 90% of vehicles and trips do not fit in any of those categories, and so bring zero of the value but all the harm.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#383

Post by constantcrying »

somedude895 wrote: post #270
bedobi wrote: post #29

The design of the physical environment is in no small part responsible for this. Don't believe me go to Europe and Japan where kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school, to friends places and just in general play and exist outside unattended to a much higher degree than in the US. Because in the US they would be roadkill, and even if they somehow survived outside of a car, car centric design means there's now…

Why does HN love this narrative so much? The article is about very different causes, cars are mentioned only once in passing. It's getting really stale to have to read this same comment over and over rather than people discussing the topics that TFA is actually about.

It is a big political trend on reddit, mostly it is about American progressives fantasizing about European cities, while having no idea how car centric all of Europe is or the actual causes of the problems they perceive.

Just as a hint, Europeans love their cars as well. They drive them a lot and outside of large cities public infrastructure is sparse at best and almost never an actually viable alternative.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#384

Post by bedobi »

ponector wrote: post #252
alfalfasprout wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're also putting Europe on a pedestal. In many urban areas (where the majority of the population lives) it's no longer safe for kids to walk + bike to school freely. Not necessarily because of cars but significant crime.

Sounds like a false claim. Robbery of children? Human trafficking? What exactly are you talking? I would say one off the biggest threat for pedestrians in European city are electric scooters.

> electric scooters

this is bullshit, cars kill and injure orders of magnitude more people in Europe than scooters do. That's not to say there's 0 issues with scooters, because there are, but focus should remain on cars, not scooters.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#385

Post by bedobi »

constantcrying wrote: post #383
somedude895 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does HN love this narrative so much? The article is about very different causes, cars are mentioned only once in passing. It's getting really stale to have to read this same comment over and over rather than people discussing the topics that TFA is actually about.

It is a big political trend on reddit, mostly it is about American progressives fantasizing about European cities, while having no idea how car centric all of Europe is or the actual causes of the problems they perceive. Just as a hint, Europeans love their cars as well. They drive them a lot and outside of large cities public infrastructure is sparse at best and almost never an actually viable alternative.

I started the thread, I am and grew up in euro, have lived in Japan and North America a well. It's not a fantasy, it's lived experience and hard data.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#386

Post by constantcrying »

ceejayoz wrote: post #379
constantcrying wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? How do roads prevent you from going outside. Of course I went to the houses of my friends by foot/bike after school. Unsurprisingly there were roads with cars everywhere, which do exist here in Europe. Blaming "road centric infrastructure" is delusional, road centric infrastructure has been the norm for at least 60 years and if that were the cause you would have noticed a degradation then and no degradation aft…

> How do roads prevent you from going outside. https://usa.streetsblog.org/2014/05/19/a-crosswalk-too-far-v... "In the Boston suburb of Burlington, Massachusetts, the AMC movie theater is right across the street from the Burlington Mall. But if you're planning to travel between these two destinations on foot, you're in for quite a hike. The closest crosswalk is more than half a mile down the Middlesex Turnpike. That…

Who cares that the city administration is too stupid to put in traffic lights.

Seriously, what a dumb example. The problem has already been solved. My city is full of cars, but there are also enough traffic lights triggered by pedestrian s, hardly a miracle of modern engineering.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#387

Post by constantcrying »

bedobi wrote: post #385
constantcrying wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a big political trend on reddit, mostly it is about American progressives fantasizing about European cities, while having no idea how car centric all of Europe is or the actual causes of the problems they perceive. Just as a hint, Europeans love their cars as well. They drive them a lot and outside of large cities public infrastructure is sparse at best and almost never an actually viable alternative.

I started the thread, I am and grew up in euro, have lived in Japan and North America a well. It's not a fantasy, it's lived experience and hard data.

I have never entered the US, but have been to many of the larger European cities. None of them came close to what Americans on /r/fuckcars are fantasizing about, when they talk about Europe.

If they post pictures it is almost always of the few square kilometers of the city where millionaires and shops for millionaires are located. The rest of the city is full of streets and cars are everywhere. The one difference is that there are trains, which usually are awful places but get you from A to B.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#388

Post by ceejayoz »

constantcrying wrote: post #386
ceejayoz wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do roads prevent you from going outside. https://usa.streetsblog.org/2014/05/19/a-crosswalk-too-far-v... "In the Boston suburb of Burlington, Massachusetts, the AMC movie theater is right across the street from the Burlington Mall. But if you're planning to travel between these two destinations on foot, you're in for quite a hike. The closest crosswalk is more than half a mile down the Middlesex Turnpike. That…

Who cares that the city administration is too stupid to put in traffic lights. Seriously, what a dumb example. The problem has already been solved. My city is full of cars, but there are also enough traffic lights triggered by pedestrian s, hardly a miracle of modern engineering.

> Who cares that the city administration is too stupid to put in traffic lights.

The people living there?

> The problem has already been solved.

Yes, that's why the poster said "in the US they would be roadkill". It's very much a solved problem; the US is notable for not implementing the solutions.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#389

Post by causality0 »

eru wrote: post #329
mysterydip wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the electric SUVs?

You could tax momentum as well. (Or as a short-hand, tax fuel and tax vehicles by weight.)

Tax road wear. The weight over each axle to the fourth power times number of axles. That'll put smaller cars on the road.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#390

Post by causality0 »

jfim wrote: post #213
shiroiushi wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's part of it, but not all: it depends on the buyer. People buying big trucks as a fashion statement are definitely doing it for this reason, but there's people who genuinely need trucks, and they're all bitching and complaining about 1) trucks costing $50k-100k because they're basically luxury vehicles and they don't make cheap, utilitarian versions any more, and also because all those fashion-statement buyers h…

There's the Ford Maverick that starts at $24k and is relatively small.

Now if only you could buy the damn things.the price has gone up 25% in two years and you still can't find one for purchase.
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