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Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

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Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#321

Post by trgn »

throwaway7ahgb wrote: post #304
sagarm wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not how the majority of cul-de-sac subdivisions work in the American South. There are certainly not a bunch in amenities within a 10 minute walk -- usually you can't even leave the subdivision in that time on foot, let alone safely walk to the nearby gas station on a 40mph road with no sidewalk or shoulder. Where are these magical subdivisions with city-like access to amenities?

They exist! I live in one and there is a small "town square" where the kids all walk/bike to and play with green space and (grocery, cafes, restaurants). It is surrounded by a typical suburban layout with high density closest and then low density housing as you get farther away. If you are really interested in this type of living, look for newer master planned communities in the south. They are immensely popular and…

yeah, I've seen them, much better way to build. it doesn't solve the traffic issue, people still drive everywhere, but within it, it's a little village. the one near me is immensely popular, i love to go visit too, just for dinner or what not.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#322

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

naasking wrote: post #163
squigz wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Add on top of that the communities they do have are all virtual. Virtual groups are a fine addition to, but not a good replacement for physical interaction. Why not?

If you're being serious, then you're suggesting that it would be perfectly healthy for a person to literally just lie in bed all day and only interact with people virtually. If you think that isn't healthy, then you are acknowledging that virtual groups are not a replacement for physical interaction, even if you disagree with others on how much physical interaction is required.

> If you're being serious, then you're suggesting that it would be perfectly healthy for a person to literally just lie in bed all day and only interact with people virtually.

It's what adults have (mostly) left for (most US) kids to do - when adults replaced free roaming areas with roads and private property.

ref: https://i.redd.it/32yuwrnvgi491.jpg

As a child, I could walk in any direction and either find area to explore (safe from interfering adults) or find other kids. Same as my parents, g-parents, ancestors going back 10s x 1000s of years.

My kids had nowhere to go. Same for their peers all over.

I'm fine with taking away their ~only practical method of connecting as long as we return the spaces kids had for connecting (thruout history).

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#323

Post by morkalork »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #15

America is transitioning from a high trust society to a low trust society. This is one of the many consequences.

Transitioning? When "good guys with guns" get off on murder charges every year for killing innocent people just because they "feared for their lives", I'd say the transition is complete.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#324

Post by i80and »

nottorp wrote: post #257
ThalesX wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Eastern Europe; I've only seen an "American-style" SUV once I think two decades ago. I still can't get that image out of my mind. It was like a tank in front of my car. I couldn't understand how it fits our streets, how it parks, I couldn't see around it. Just... wow, honestly. I have no idea what car it was, but it was like a huge pick-up.

I once saw a F-150. It needed 3 parking spots at my eastern european local mall :) And I don't mean the driver was an asshole, it simply wouldn't have fit in otherwise.

I deeply hate driving my family's F-150 for this reason. It doesn't fit in American parking spaces.

Ridiculous vehicle.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#325

Post by eru »

dctoedt wrote: post #274
eru wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if by 'reform', you mean abolish. As you can see, those requirements just get gamed. Instead of complicated rules, just tax fuel (or emissions etc), and consumers will institute their own personal fuel efficiency requirements.

> those requirements just get gamed. ... [J]ust tax fuel (or emissions etc), and consumers will institute their own personal fuel efficiency requirements. That's not likely to succeed, because: 1. People — individuals and companies — try to game the tax system at least as much as they do pollution regulations, and probably much more so because tax obligations are largely self-reported with only sporadic auditing to c…

> 1. People — individuals and companies — try to game the tax system at least as much as they do pollution regulations, and probably much more so because tax obligations are largely self-reported with only sporadic auditing to catch cheaters and gamers.

> 2. Certain political elements are always trying to defund the tax auditors (e.g., the IRS). We might well ask why that is.

Tax the petrol itself. That works reasonably well in most of the world. No need for complicated individual audits etc.

> 3. Politically, tax hikes are always harder to get through Congress — and to keep in force — than sensible standards for products and behaviors that voters can see are beneficial to them (e.g., pollution prohibitions).

I don't know. We kicked off the whole discussion because the standards you have are NOT sensible.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#326

Post by Tomis02 »

nottorp wrote: post #257
ThalesX wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Eastern Europe; I've only seen an "American-style" SUV once I think two decades ago. I still can't get that image out of my mind. It was like a tank in front of my car. I couldn't understand how it fits our streets, how it parks, I couldn't see around it. Just... wow, honestly. I have no idea what car it was, but it was like a huge pick-up.

I once saw a F-150. It needed 3 parking spots at my eastern european local mall :) And I don't mean the driver was an asshole, it simply wouldn't have fit in otherwise.

> And I don't mean the driver was an asshole

Well...

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#327

Post by eru »

swasheck wrote: post #310
eru wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if by 'reform', you mean abolish. As you can see, those requirements just get gamed. Instead of complicated rules, just tax fuel (or emissions etc), and consumers will institute their own personal fuel efficiency requirements.

it would be interesting to see the effects of taxation in this particular situation in the united states. from what i’ve seen, this is one of those situations where financial penalties do not dissuade or deter proliferation. at a minimum it seems to foment radicalization of political sides toward their general bent (the government is doing too much, or not enough). one side yells louder for more while consuming itsel…

That's the beauty: If the taxes are set right, then people can buy vehicles 'out of spite', and it's all right.

At a high enough tax rate, the would-be gas guzzlers' contribution to the fisc outweighs their probabilistic homicide.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#328

Post by eru »

beretguy wrote: post #246
eru wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if by 'reform', you mean abolish. As you can see, those requirements just get gamed. Instead of complicated rules, just tax fuel (or emissions etc), and consumers will institute their own personal fuel efficiency requirements.

> just tax fuel (or emissions etc) No, because that harm small fun sports cars. The problem is big cars. Just ban big cars.

You can tax momentum (and/or weight), too.

Basically, tax fuel and tax the car.

But no need for outright bans. Almost any externality you can think of from (big) cars is finite, and thus a finite tax is appropriate.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#329

Post by eru »

mysterydip wrote: post #296
ponector wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuel tax is the best solution. Pay as you go. More fuel you consume more emissions you produce, more distance you go, more road your wear occurs. Do you want to get 8l V8 engine? Fine, just pay your fuel taxes.

What about the electric SUVs?

You could tax momentum as well. (Or as a short-hand, tax fuel and tax vehicles by weight.)

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#330

Post by eru »

hiatus wrote: post #320
erikw wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can legally sell a new small vehicle in the US, so the root cause is legislation that prevents this. I believe that if you could legally produce kei sized vehicles in the US, there would be a massive market for it, especially in urban environments. And I'm sure US manufacturers would be happy to sell them to all comers. Edit: Basically any car from Suzuki would be a hit in the US: https://www.suzuki…

> I don't think you can legally sell a new small vehicle in the US This is blatantly false. See: the Mitsubishi Mirage as just one example.

The Mitsubishi Mirage might be a small car by American standards, but it seems quite a few weight classes above Kei cars.

(I don't know about erikw's claims about small cars being illegal in the US. So I don't want to express an opinion on that.)

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