Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

afterbabel.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 480 posts

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#221

Post by piva00 »

alfalfasprout wrote: post #32
bedobi wrote: post #29

The design of the physical environment is in no small part responsible for this. Don't believe me go to Europe and Japan where kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school, to friends places and just in general play and exist outside unattended to a much higher degree than in the US. Because in the US they would be roadkill, and even if they somehow survived outside of a car, car centric design means there's now…

You're also putting Europe on a pedestal. In many urban areas (where the majority of the population lives) it's no longer safe for kids to walk + bike to school freely. Not necessarily because of cars but significant crime.

Please, share your sources and what cities you are talking about.

I live in Europe and I see groups of kids hanging out by themselves all the time in many, many major cities across the continent.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#222

Post by skissane »

jjav wrote: post #207
rootusrootus wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the US and my kids walk and bike to school. You're making wide generalizations across a large country.

> I live in the US and my kids walk and bike to school. You're making wide generalizations across a large country. I've learned from HN discussions that there is a vast difference in what people think of as a "suburb". Some will say it takes over 30 minutes by car from a suburb to the nearest store. To me that's very rural, I'd never consider that a suburb. But some do. So we get these disconnected discussion on how…

> I've learned from HN discussions that there is a vast difference in what people think of as a "suburb".

In Australian English, “suburb” roughly means “neighbourhood”. So to us, downtown (or the CBD as we call it), is a “suburb”. In the Australian sense of the term, the Financial District and the Upper East Side are suburbs of New York City.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#223

Post by siquick »

bedobi wrote: post #162
nineteen999 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing to see in China too ... cars pulling out everywhere in front of each other, weaving in and out of traffic. However I suspect there are less road accidents there per capita than here in Australia since everybody there has to pay attention and is patient with other drivers. Australian drivers either tune out or are too aggressive (road rage) and cause more accidents.

Having lived in Europe, Asia, North America and Australia, Australia seems to me by far the worst drivers. Incredibly aggressive, insane speeding and road rage, everywhere, all the time. And it’s not just tolerated, it’s completely normal and accepted, even considered cool and encouraged. Just what.

This is my experience too. Pedestrian crossings are completely ignored and indicating is optional. Combined with this god awful SUVs, Australia is an unpleasant place to be a pedestrian.

Sydney has this weird thing where cars drive full speed to red lights and break at the last minute which is pretty frightening when crossing.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#224

Post by pantalaimon »

crooked-v wrote: post #80
bedobi wrote: post #29

The design of the physical environment is in no small part responsible for this. Don't believe me go to Europe and Japan where kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school, to friends places and just in general play and exist outside unattended to a much higher degree than in the US. Because in the US they would be roadkill, and even if they somehow survived outside of a car, car centric design means there's now…

My particular bugbear here is the absolutely insanity of truck and SUV heights, to the point that even full-grown adults are no longer clearly visible from inside new vehicles ( https://i.imgur.com/1dHWVxn.png ).

There was a case recently where a little girl was crushed by a SUV making a right turn at a pedestrian crossing.

She was walking right behind her parents, but the driver could not see her because the vehicle was too high, so thought the road was free when the parents had passed through.

The court decided that the driver was at no fault as it was impossible to see the girl from his position.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#225

Post by piva00 »

overstay8930 wrote: post #36
bedobi wrote: post #29

The design of the physical environment is in no small part responsible for this. Don't believe me go to Europe and Japan where kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school, to friends places and just in general play and exist outside unattended to a much higher degree than in the US. Because in the US they would be roadkill, and even if they somehow survived outside of a car, car centric design means there's now…

Most parents in Europe would not let their kids walk alone to school lol, maybe outside of large cities but it is not the norm anymore.

I have friends with school-age kids ranging from 9-12 years old living in Stockholm, Berlin, Amsterdam, Düsseldorf, Münich, and Milan. Almost all of them go alone to school: walking, biking, or using public transport, the only exception is the couple who lives in Milan.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#226

Post by krisoft »

pantalaimon wrote: post #224
crooked-v wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My particular bugbear here is the absolutely insanity of truck and SUV heights, to the point that even full-grown adults are no longer clearly visible from inside new vehicles ( https://i.imgur.com/1dHWVxn.png ).

There was a case recently where a little girl was crushed by a SUV making a right turn at a pedestrian crossing. She was walking right behind her parents, but the driver could not see her because the vehicle was too high, so thought the road was free when the parents had passed through. The court decided that the driver was at no fault as it was impossible to see the girl from his position.

> The court decided that the driver was at no fault as it was impossible to see the girl from his position.

I hope that means that the vehicle manufacturer is on a murder trial then. But I do not have illusions that this will lead to actual change.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#227

Post by pantalaimon »

alfalfasprout wrote: post #32
bedobi wrote: post #29

The design of the physical environment is in no small part responsible for this. Don't believe me go to Europe and Japan where kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school, to friends places and just in general play and exist outside unattended to a much higher degree than in the US. Because in the US they would be roadkill, and even if they somehow survived outside of a car, car centric design means there's now…

You're also putting Europe on a pedestal. In many urban areas (where the majority of the population lives) it's no longer safe for kids to walk + bike to school freely. Not necessarily because of cars but significant crime.

I’m now curious where those urban areas are where crime is so significant, kids no longer can walk to school.

(And what kind of crime? We don’t really have lots of drive-by-shootings here, kids aren’t exactly a prime target for robberies either)

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#228

Post by pantalaimon »

carlosjobim wrote: post #89
bedobi wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

guess what kills the most children, criminals or cars?

At a certain maturity, kids have developed mentally enough for cars to not be a threat to them. Criminals are a whole different problem.

What kind of criminal is out to kill kids?

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#229

Post by thefz »

bedobi wrote: post #29

The design of the physical environment is in no small part responsible for this. Don't believe me go to Europe and Japan where kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school, to friends places and just in general play and exist outside unattended to a much higher degree than in the US. Because in the US they would be roadkill, and even if they somehow survived outside of a car, car centric design means there's now…

> car centric design means there's nowhere for them to go on foot or by bike anyway

There is no need to move them if you create the spaces, like courtyards, gardens and backyards.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#230

Post by robohoe »

fzeroracer wrote: post #95
ars wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most suburbs are like this.

Most suburbs? What suburbs are you referring to, exactly? The 'burbs I grew up in there was nothing nearby in a two mile radius. The only access to school was via bus or having my parents drive.

Chicago area comes to my mind
Post reply on HN