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Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

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Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#201

Post by shiroiushi »

Dalewyn wrote: post #87
bedobi wrote: post #29

The design of the physical environment is in no small part responsible for this. Don't believe me go to Europe and Japan where kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school, to friends places and just in general play and exist outside unattended to a much higher degree than in the US. Because in the US they would be roadkill, and even if they somehow survived outside of a car, car centric design means there's now…

>Because in the US they would be roadkill, Have you actually experienced Japanese drivers? They make American drivers look absolutely noble (and truthfully, we are) by comparison. For starters, and this applies to both individual and professional drivers: * They don't give way to emergency vehicles blaring the sirens. * They don't wait for people to finish crossing intersections. * They don't let other drivers into t…

>* They don't wait for people to finish crossing intersections.

This is NOT at all my experience here in Tokyo. Drivers are generally very careful around crosswalks, and for good reason: if a driver hits a pedestrian (or cyclist), it's automatically the driver's fault, with almost no exceptions.

The only really bad drivers I normally see here are some taxi drivers, driving too fast on narrow streets in the city. Everyone else is generally careful.

But don't forget: here in Tokyo, most drivers are professionals (delivery trucks or taxis usually), not private individuals. Your experience in more rural or car-centric parts of Japan are likely to be very different.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#202

Post by shiroiushi »

Dalewyn wrote: post #192
nox101 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lived in Japan 20 years and still spend ~2 months a year there including last month. Never experienced any of this except "most roads are very narrow" which is only semi-true. It's true many small roads are, um, small. But there are plenty of big roads as well. I've never seen dedicated police supervision. I have seen directors around road construction. That's no different than in the states.

Here's some more detail concerning pedestrians crossing intersections that I mentioned earlier. In America, it is literally against the law to enter an intersection unless you can completely cross it without stopping. That means if a pedestrian is crossing, you wait outside of the intersection for them to finish crossing first. In Japan? With pedestrians crossing? You enter the intersection and hopefully you stop inc…

>In America, it is literally against the law to enter an intersection unless you can completely cross it without stopping.

This is false: it depends on the state. In Arizona, it is the law that you can enter the intersection to turn, and then if the light turns red, everyone has to wait until you complete your turn before they can enter the intersection.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#203

Post by kstenerud »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #117
ars wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most suburbs are like this.

Maybe a tiny part of a suburb where you're not just near both the school and grocery store but it's nice to walk there and you're not crossing major roads. So, a tiny fraction of the US population. Either way, some Americans will hear people talk about Europe or Japan or whatever and tell themself "I totally have that too where I live in the US" yet it's not even close.

Yup, in every European or Japanese town or city I've lived in (with the exception of one very small and isolated town), I never bothered getting a car. Everything was close enough to walk to (usually 2-5 minutes walk), and for things that were too far, I'd take the tram or train.

I've also lived in a few American cities, and it's a completely different experience. Even from downtown Philly it was inconvenient to get anywhere without a car.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#204

Post by boredtofears »

denkmoon wrote: post #146
admax88qqq wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s also still the insane 25% tariff on light trucks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax Which makes importing smaller trucks like you see in other countries cost prohibitive

Only the most frugal and businesses are thinking about that tariff. Ads for these excessively large "utility" vehicles (which have sacrificed bed size for cabin comfort and are often not 4WD) are very indicative. They don't talk about price (and when they do, it's focused on credit terms rather than the capital cost). They talk about power, lifestyle, and giving the perception of masculinity. That is why people buy t…

I don't think that's right. They don't get imported, period. I would love a small truck right now - I have a relatively rural property with lots of yard waste. I would make use of a pickup bed probably every weekend if I had one, but a small pickup truck simply doesn't exist in the market. Everything is a giant extended cab. I don't think I'm the only one with this need. There's nothing new out there that meets this need and there's not a lot used either.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#205

Post by trgn »

dalyons wrote: post #130
thepasswordis wrote: post #107

[flagged]

That might be true for you, and that sucks. but it is not so for the vast majority of the US who’s parks are just fine

OP is right, these neighborhoods exists. it's so hard to put your finger on, but you recognize it when you see it. it's not necessarily downtown vs suburb, some suburbs are just kind of foul too. Just this weekend, me and my kids saw somebody trying to put a syringe in his thigh (being tactful here). we thought he was releaving himself and were making jokes about it, until we actually got closer. It's bad out there.

Like, parks always have had vagrants, but there's a difference between the loveable wino napping away his hangover or skulking junkies trying to score. i don't think they're necessarily dangerous, but children are seeing things they shouldn't at their age.

btw - i still think it's cars, mostly, but it all depends on the details. it's sadly and and and and..

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#206

Post by CalRobert »

pmtcc wrote: post #157
CalRobert wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only we made killing children with your car a crime.

I recently lived in Portland when a teen was killed by a car in the southeast part of the city. The guy fled back to Saudi Arabia and no semblance of justice occurred. In the real world, vehicular crimes are seen as just a part of life. Consider the common term "car accident" and the absolving of responsibility it implies.

Even your statement shows how deep the absolution of drivers is - a driver killed the kid. Though they’d face no consequences in the US either

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#207

Post by jjav »

rootusrootus wrote: post #71
bedobi wrote: post #29

The design of the physical environment is in no small part responsible for this. Don't believe me go to Europe and Japan where kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school, to friends places and just in general play and exist outside unattended to a much higher degree than in the US. Because in the US they would be roadkill, and even if they somehow survived outside of a car, car centric design means there's now…

I live in the US and my kids walk and bike to school. You're making wide generalizations across a large country.

> I live in the US and my kids walk and bike to school. You're making wide generalizations across a large country.

I've learned from HN discussions that there is a vast difference in what people think of as a "suburb".

Some will say it takes over 30 minutes by car from a suburb to the nearest store. To me that's very rural, I'd never consider that a suburb. But some do. So we get these disconnected discussion on how you can/can't do such and such thing in a suburb.

I've nearly always lived in what I consider suburbs. Places with single family homes and parks and playgrounds where I can very easily walk to just about every store or service nearby. The middle schools is an easy walk away for kids. High school is a bit farther but still an easy bike ride for high-school age kids (about 15 minutes).

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#208

Post by pedroma »

Moldoteck wrote: post #177
thepasswordis wrote: post #107

[flagged]

It may be one of the reasons, but maybe you should compare deaths caused by dangerous drug addicts vs cars in the us? To get a perspective P.s. - Netherlands does have a drug addicts problem too and still, kids there somehow do have much more freedom compared to us

I don't think it makes sense to compare deaths by cars to deaths by dangerous drug addicts for the same reason it doesn't make sense to compare death by cars to death by molestation.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#209

Post by wincy »

_dark_matter_ wrote: post #129
dyauspitr wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

9pm and you don’t know where your 9 year old is? That going too far in the other direction in my opinion. How is she doing academically? I feel like that much freedom, that early, makes it easy to pick up bad habits with the “bad” kids.

I mean this happens with my 9 year old. We have a parent group chat and just ask who knows where the crew is

Yep, we have a neighborhood group chat and send over a note with phone numbers when a new person moves in. Works great. She also has an Apple Watch with cellular service in case we need to get ahold of her. I’m happy to say she came home right on time this evening without so much as a phone call though.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#210

Post by jjav »

trgn wrote: post #195
ars wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school That's how it's like in the suburbs. There are very few cars, and kids can play and bike on the roads, and go anywhere on their bikes. It's only urban areas that are very car centric and kids can't do that, although they can go on the subway or a bus. The suburbs are much nicer and safer for kids.

Agreed. in suburbs, cul-de-sac neighborhoods and such, you'll still see kids, but only within that fishbowl. It's the core areas where kids are gone. Traffic is also much nastier there. lots of intersections, vagrants skulking around, more through traffic .. much more of an antisocial vibe in general, hard to put your finger on. I think that's why the difference with europe is so stark. You go visit, and you'll be in…

> In the usa, kids only roam free in secluded pockets, far away from the "real" city.

The discussion is about suburbs, so by definition it is away from the city core.

Here in our (US, California) suburb it is wonderfully walkable for kids and adults alike. For kids, there is very little traffic since only local neighborhood traffic is present unlike in cities. There are bike/walk trails around and across. Multiple playgrounds, sports fields, all connected by bike trails. Stores, restaurants, school, assorted services, theaters, all within a ~10 minute walk radius. This is what suburb means to me.

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