Live data from Hacker News

Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

afterbabel.com

51–60 of 480 posts

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#51
As someone who lives in a small Bay Area suburb that you wouldn't expect a strong sense of community to arise in, it's been fascinating and a little heartwarming watching the village form around my kids.

My kindergartner is now at the point where he can walk into a random town event and find somebody he already knows. He's had 3 consecutive weekends of birthday parties, with largely the same cast of characters at the last 2 (the third was a pre-school friend who lives in a different city). He knows all his friends' parents, and a bunch of them apparently know me ("Hi, ___'s dad!") even though I can't remember their names. There's an interlocking web of social relationships in the city that we've somehow become part of, where people know other people through other contexts.

This didn't happen automatically, and it's been fascinating to watch the work that my wife and other (frankly) women have done in building the village. It's a slow, year-by-year process of doing favors for other people, putting yourself out there, spending time with other people, having your kids spend time with other people, opening up, and building trust. We tried carpooling for the first time last spring - it worked out great, and we have a much closer relationship with the other family now, but it can be nerve-wracking entrusting your small child to another driver. But that is how you build trust, and trust is how you build the village.

The community I live in is not at all what the article would predict. We are a secular liberal family. Our friends are mostly secular liberal with some religious liberal families mixed in. The community is 30% foreign-born, and 35% speak a language other than English at home. It is racially mixed, But the most important ingredient to having community is that you have to want community, and value it, and be willing to put in the effort to build it. And it has a critical mass of people who value community, enough that if you are one of them, you can find your people.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All in all, this is not science It's not trying to be. The intended audience is not peers reading a research journal, it's normal folks and policy makers who don't know what a confounding variable is but still want to make modern life suck less.

I think it's trying to appear to be science. They want the appearance of legitimacy and objectivity to encourage a particular position. A quick read through of the site shows it's a conservative-leaning group, and I'd be willing to bet that sooner-or-later they'll be pushing "a return to traditional values" as the cure for all our ills.

> A quick read through of the site shows it's a conservative-leaning group

While there's nothing wrong with being conservative, the group's founder is a self-described Democrat.

> I'd be willing to bet that sooner-or-later they'll be pushing "a return to traditional values" as the cure for all our ills

If "growing up in close-knit communities" (from the article) is a traditional value, then yes, they are saying that would be a good thing.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Confounders or not, kids don't have crap for communities. They have 24/7 adulting, most of it spent in one building or another. source:5 kids. source:15 years scout leader. source:10 years youth leader, other.

I hear a lot about excessive parenting on here but I wonder if it's just a segment of society. Can anyone but wealthy parents have time to occupy their kids 24-7? The freedom I and friends had as a kid was not a decision of my parents so much as a necessity. Parents dont get home from work until 6, school lets out at 2, we get at least 4 free hours of undisturbed freedom. Why would that be different now?

I think the idea of 24/7 parenting has is definitely not universal, given the amount of unsupervised time spent online and gaming.

I suspect most of this time just moved from streets and parks to bedrooms in front of a screen.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're also putting Europe on a pedestal. In many urban areas (where the majority of the population lives) it's no longer safe for kids to walk + bike to school freely. Not necessarily because of cars but significant crime.

Is it no longer safe there? Because in the states parents have been restricting kids a lot more severely just as crime in cities plummeted (mid 90s--present). So I imagine it's either perceptions about safety, or parents just being more careful.

It isn't no longer safe for kids to walk to school. What happened is that American internet arrived here, and it has political reasons to want everyone to think it is.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#55
post #10

Is this what Zgmunt Bauman called the transition from Solid Modernity to Liquid Modernity? With rents going up and switching jobs more frequently than past generations it becomes harder to stuck around in one place long enough for strong communities to form.

The rate of work-related moves is half of what it used to be in the 1960s. By all accounts, mobility is decreasing, not increasing. The reality is that we just don't talk to each other much. If you want to look for the decline of one institution that provided some degree of community cohesion, then the answer is going to be pretty unpopular: we don't go to church anymore.

What I want to know is why people will get up on the internet and say something counterfactual like people are moving more today than in the past, a hypothesis without a shred of supporting evidence. All measures of mobility are headed down, whether intercity moves or job changes. American mobility has hit a new record low every year this century, accelerating a trend that has been in decline since the end of the War.

https://www.ft.com/content/96cb501d-b188-4e50-af21-ca7115878...

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#56
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're also putting Europe on a pedestal. In many urban areas (where the majority of the population lives) it's no longer safe for kids to walk + bike to school freely. Not necessarily because of cars but significant crime.

guess what kills the most children, criminals or cars?

Exactly, what the hell is "not necessarily because of cars" supposed to mean? Or maybe it's a comment on how, despite cars being way more dangerous, parents over-focus on crime?

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Confounders or not, kids don't have crap for communities. They have 24/7 adulting, most of it spent in one building or another. source:5 kids. source:15 years scout leader. source:10 years youth leader, other.

Add on top of that the communities they do have are all virtual. Virtual groups are a fine addition to, but not a good replacement for physical interaction. Being in physical proximity is just a fundamentally different experience. I remember rather fondly the days of LAN parties, and a small part of me wishes we had kept the networking without going all the way to the Internet. Yes, the irony of this post, and my car…

> Add on top of that the communities they do have are all virtual. Virtual groups are a fine addition to, but not a good replacement for physical interaction.

Why not?

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#58
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids faced the same situation, though at least the neighbors also had kids. I think that parents have to revolt en masse against saturating their kids with extracurriculars. One family going it alone is going to have lonesome kids. The competitiveness has to go away -- the feeling that your kids have to be 100% occupied in order to give them a fighting chance in the future. Schools need to back off on homework.

The problem there is college. You'd have to either make college admissions much less "holistic", or make sure there are non-college paths to success (something people have been trying hard for many years with little success), or both.

You almost hit on it, but I think the real problem is the economy got worse first. That trickled down to increase pressure in college and high school.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#59

Moral panic, people said the same thing about books, newspapers, radio etc. People like things and get into them, that is normal. Before all this is was just farm work. To quote a meme "The children yearn for the mines"

Literally no one ever said that children weren't socializing because they were spending all day on their books, newspapers, and radios. You're making that up. Horror comic books are a moral panic. Children who don't know anyone but their parents and spend 10 hours a day on their phones is cause for a real panic.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#60
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you seriously implying that immigration is responsible for a sudden reduction in public trust? american immigration has been a thing for 300 years

The type of immigration the US has experienced has changed a fair bit over those 300 years, let alone the last 50 years.

How? Other than it's by land instead of by sea?

My immigrant grandparents came here seeking asylum from persecution in their home country. The other side all came seeking jobs.

How is that different?

Post reply on HN