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Why Triplebyte Failed

otherbranch.com

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Re: Why Triplebyte Failed

#101
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you create a standardized test it will be gamed. Even with the small modicum of standardization around interview questions that we currently see, people have published books like Cracking The Code Interview, making it easier for people who don’t have the skills for a particular job to pass interviews at any place that uses standard-ish questions. Furthermore, as an avowed enemy of “Clean Code”, I don’t want to see…

The current system is already gamed and virtually standardized. The only difference that official standardization would present is that applicants would no longer have to go through the Leetcode gauntlet each time they want to switch jobs , which would save a breathtaking amount of time and effort currently occupied by wasteful redundancy in the interview process. Corporations can use that standard exam/license as a…

People underestimate how much cultural baggage influences things.

I'll give a very simple example. I did a few SWE interviews in 2020, and several companies did the initial screen over the phone, and the on-site over Zoom.

In both cases it was a remote interview. There was no reason not to do both over Zoom. The only reason was that the previous process was a phone interview and then an in-person onsite, and they realized they had to replace the in-person on-site with Zoom, but they didn't think to replace the phone screen. If you started from scratch it makes no sense though.

In this case, the whole origin of the Leetcode interview is "we're going to hire the smartest people in the world.". You can dispute whether that was true back in 2009 but it was certainly part of Google / Facebook's messaging. Now, in 2024, I think it has morphed much closer to a standardized test, and even if people might begrudgingly admit that, there's still the cultural baggage remaining. If a company used a third-party service, they'd be admitted they're hiring standardized candidates rather than the smartest people in the world. Which might be an "unknown known" - things that everybody knows but nobody is allowed to admit.

Re: Why Triplebyte Failed

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the set of people employed at corporations provides overwhelming evidence against this.

I'm including small corporations and startups in this, not just the faceless megacorp. You still have an employer and it's still a corporation even if it's just a half dozen guys who all enjoy each others' company, code up some great stuff, and go out for beers together after the workday. You have to know yourself well enough to understand what type of environment you want to work in. Some people perform better in st…

Thanks for clarifying :)

Re: Why Triplebyte Failed

#103
post #35

It's interesting to see how much "standardized cross-company interview for software eng" has been consistently a cursed problem in the industry. Unlike airline pilots (or I'm certain many other professions), every company in the valley insists on re-interviewing a candidate in their own custom and unique way, instead of trusting some sort of an industry-wide certificate only achievable through a standardized test. Wo…

If you create a standardized test it will be gamed. Even with the small modicum of standardization around interview questions that we currently see, people have published books like Cracking The Code Interview, making it easier for people who don’t have the skills for a particular job to pass interviews at any place that uses standard-ish questions. Furthermore, as an avowed enemy of “Clean Code”, I don’t want to see…

Just out of curiosity, what are some of the problems with "Clean Code"? I thought most of it made sense as basic guidelines. It's been a while since I read it though

Re: Why Triplebyte Failed

#104

It's interesting to see how much "standardized cross-company interview for software eng" has been consistently a cursed problem in the industry. Unlike airline pilots (or I'm certain many other professions), every company in the valley insists on re-interviewing a candidate in their own custom and unique way, instead of trusting some sort of an industry-wide certificate only achievable through a standardized test. Wo…

> Unlike airline pilots (or I'm certain many other professions), every company in the valley insists on re-interviewing a candidate in their own custom and unique way, instead of trusting some sort of an industry-wide certificate only achievable through a standardized test. Wonder if this will ever be solved.

The airplane pilot interview process on top of the standardized government certifications includes:

- On-line application (resume and cover letter)

- On-line Psychometric/Aptitude testing (sometimes this is hands-on, on site for some airlines)

- Video Interview, SKYPE or Telephone interview

- Assessment Day (includes: Technical Questions / Panel Behavioral Interview / Scenario Based Questions / Flight Planning Exercise and sometimes a Clinical Assessment)

- Sim Test

- Referee Check

- Medical Check

The exact details differ by airline and I'm assuming the risk profile of the cargo (ie: passengers or not).

Gosh, not so different from software engineers, is it? Except you also need to do a bunch of bureaucratic certifications on top of that.

Re: Why Triplebyte Failed

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is an obviously foolish and unethical decision to publicly post user profiles without their consent -- "a consequence of pivoting"?

To be clear: it was a bad decision both ethically and tactically, and I am not in any way defending it. I am explaining it, in the same way that one might explain why a bridge collapsed. (I will also note that one piece of the backlash somewhat misunderstood things - the profiles were "public" to subscribers, not to the internet at large, insofar as that distinction is meaningful.) The reason it was a consequence of…

Yeah, that didn't seem like a clever move by an ascending company so much as a desperate move by a descending company. Therefore it can't be the reason for the failure.

Re: Why Triplebyte Failed

#107

It's interesting to see how much "standardized cross-company interview for software eng" has been consistently a cursed problem in the industry. Unlike airline pilots (or I'm certain many other professions), every company in the valley insists on re-interviewing a candidate in their own custom and unique way, instead of trusting some sort of an industry-wide certificate only achievable through a standardized test. Wo…

A standardized test exists for lawyers (two, if you count the LSATs) but law firms still interview potential hires.

Do law firms ask people to write a short opinion based on a toy problem?

Re: Why Triplebyte Failed

#108
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because companies don't want capable, experienced or well-equipped. They want genius and it is really hard to test for genius. Granted, almost nobody that gets through any process is an actual genius....

I'd say it's the exact opposite. There are hordes of unqualified people applying to every software dev role imaginable regardless of what you put in the job description or requirements. The tests are there because people are good at lying but bad at faking skills.

Seriously, if you've never hired before, you have no idea how bad this can get.

Here's [1] our practice coding problem. It's quite similar to the one we use on our interview, and not too far from the one Triplebyte used in the past (ours is tuned to be slightly harder at the beginning and slightly easier at the end). The vast majority of candidates, even with some reasonable pre-filtering, do not get past the first step. A very non-trivial number would not even get that far.

[1] https://www.otherbranch.com/practice-coding-problem

Re: Why Triplebyte Failed

#109

Triplebyte failed because: 1) They were useless friction. As a candidate I could apply directly to the companies I was interested in, and take a phone screen and then on-site. With Triplebyte I had to take their much more time consuming process and get to the same point of either another phone screen or on-site. They added absolutely no benefit to me as a job seeker. Especially during the hiring heydays of 2019-2022…

The post gets into _so much_ depth around what the company did that worked and didn't work and why it failed as a business. Your comment is about why you personally, one of >250k people who used the service as a candidate, didn't overwhelmingly approve of the product (and, it sounds like you may have still used it...). Do you really hold your own opinion in such high regard that you think it is more privileged than t…

Yes. I’m the target customer for this service. Me. I have had 10+ jobs in Silicon Valley, from YC startups to FAANG. They failed because their core product had no value to its customers above and beyond what currently existed and only created friction. This is the crux of it. If they delivered value that their customers benefited from they would still exist.

I have probably 100 coworkers I could text right now and have lunch with this week. I have hundreds that I’m still friendly with. Zero of them used Triplebyte either because they didn’t hear about them or because of what I mentioned above. Having no customers or no users at the breadth of experience that I or my colleagues have is a true indication of what chances they actually had to succeed, which was nil. Meanwhile EVERY SINGLE ONE of them knows LinkedIn. My last 3 jobs were through LinkedIn. That gap plus lack of benefit for going through Triplebyte is why most would not take it seriously.

250k “users” is a false number in as much as most of them probably didn’t place through Triplebyte. I would love to know how many people actually got jobs through Triplebyte but I would guess much much less than 10,000. That would represent at least 250M in revenue and it could be sustainable at that point. Given the fact it died it must mean it had much less than 10k.

Re: Why Triplebyte Failed

#110
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current system is already gamed and virtually standardized. The only difference that official standardization would present is that applicants would no longer have to go through the Leetcode gauntlet each time they want to switch jobs , which would save a breathtaking amount of time and effort currently occupied by wasteful redundancy in the interview process. Corporations can use that standard exam/license as a…

People underestimate how much cultural baggage influences things. I'll give a very simple example. I did a few SWE interviews in 2020, and several companies did the initial screen over the phone, and the on-site over Zoom. In both cases it was a remote interview. There was no reason not to do both over Zoom. The only reason was that the previous process was a phone interview and then an in-person onsite, and they rea…

I definitely agree that this industry, for all of its self-proclaimed freethinking and innovation, is rife with cultural baggage. Allowing for an independent standardized interview step would defy the not invented here syndrome that many leading corporations ascribe to, that their process is best. Not to mention reducing friction for applicants (by don't repeating your Leetcode stage) is inimical to employee retention incentives, that is preventing them from shopping around for new employers. So me saying that we oughta have a standardized test to save everybody's time is more wishful thinking than anything.
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