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The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

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Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#431

Post by trustno2 »

CalRobert wrote: post #343
ianbicking wrote: post #4

There's definitely been a move to demand individuals be good at everything... old stereotypes of the nerd brought a lot of negatives, but they were also apologetic, acknowledging the trade off, that paying attention deeply to one thing does lead to being worse at other things. The exact stereotype differed by domain... the performer who is a diva, the self destructive author, the manic artist... each with a hint of n…

This bizarre romanticization of autism is frustrating for those who are or have loved ones who are nonverbal, stim all day, etc.. I almost wonder if nerfing autism to the point where it's a fun thing to talk about having on tiktok is a way to demonize effective interventions so insurance companies won't have to pay for them.

My relative has an autistic daughter.

At 7 years old, she has mental capacity of 2 year old.

With the right help, she can be somehow functioning, but surely won't get into STEM. Being "weird nerd" is pretty orthogonal to being actually autistic.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#432

Post by samvher »

bradleyjg wrote: post #145
akozak wrote: post #104

I have a lot of experience working with the weird nerd archetype and watching them navigate large orgs. First it's absolutely true that orgs that purport to support weird nerds will revert back to rewarding politicians. I've seen it happen, and typically has to do with who is doling out money. However, in my experience the vast majority of brilliant nerds way overextend themselves, and are much too confident outside…

However, in my experience the vast majority of brilliant nerds way overextend themselves, and are much too confident outside their domain. They're also much more likely to be jerks and will tumble from conflict to conflict until they get their way by attrition or status. Conflicts are strangely more personal because so much ego is tied up into it. They're more likely to assume they're right in every (non-tech/science…

This hurts to read. At my previous employer I more or less carried the technical part of the organization, but also had strong opinions about high level strategy and equity (in terms of pay distribution across staff). In my defense, it was an NGO where I was working well below market rates and the opinions I pushed came from caring a lot about the mission, but it definitely led to a lot of conflict.

I think it's an interesting question, how organizations should deal with this. I think my previous employer actually dealt with it quite well - for the issues I cared about I _was_ given the opportunity to express my opinions and also share them with the people who were in the positions for making decisions around these issues. I was generally listened to patiently and also got (sometimes unsatisfying) explanations for why the actual course of action was different. I was _not_ given the authority to make these decisions or push these issues (the ones outside my area of expertise) through. I ended up leaving the organization in quite a bit of frustration, which I think was probably unavoidable, but I learned a ton from this episode, and we're otherwise still on good terms (I help out with little things now and then).

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#433

Post by DavidPiper »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #389
ianbicking wrote: post #4

There's definitely been a move to demand individuals be good at everything... old stereotypes of the nerd brought a lot of negatives, but they were also apologetic, acknowledging the trade off, that paying attention deeply to one thing does lead to being worse at other things. The exact stereotype differed by domain... the performer who is a diva, the self destructive author, the manic artist... each with a hint of n…

Passion and ambition are just not neuro-vanilla traits. I think that's what you're picking up on. Some people these days who are anything but call themselves autistic, ADHD, etc because they don't have a defensible banner anymore under which they can be passionate or ambitious without some reason behind the reason for it. The only way out is empathy - true empathy, a willingness to accept sometimes (often) people do…

> Passion and ambition are just not neuro-vanilla traits.

Hard disagree, which I think is your point. I see this as an offshoot of anti-intellectualism: distaste for / absence of passion and ambition is cultural, not biological, and culture becomes self-sustaining.

> The only way out is empathy - true empathy, a willingness to accept sometimes (often) people do things for the sheer joy of doing them.

Strong agree, and it's wild to me that this has indeed become a radical idea.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#434

Post by throwawayffffas »

>There was a time when academia was society’s refuge for the eccentric, brilliant, and impractical. No longer. It is now the domain of professional self-marketers. As for the eccentric, brilliant, and impractical: it would seem society now has no place for them at all.

There never was such a time, since at least the time of Newton and Euler Academics are a popularity and status contest. You got to be eccentric only after you climbed to the top of your field.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#435

Post by philwelch »

> A few weeks ago, a lot of people on academic X quickly forgot about their support for “Women in STEM” and got angry at, of all people, Katalin Karikó, the co-inventor of the mRNA technology used in COVID-19 vaccines and 2023 Nobel Prize winner. Her crime? A passage from her book where she laments that academia involved way too much people pleasing and political games for her…. A couple of months ago I wrote a piece called “The flight of the Weird Nerd from academia”, in which I argued there is a trend wherein Weird Nerds are being driven out of academia by the so-called Failed Corporatist phenotype. Katalin Karikó is a perfect example of a Weird Nerd.

What this misses is the fact that a massive element of the “support for women in STEM” discourse was the blatant demonization of the Weird Nerd in favor of the Failed Corporatist.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#436

Post by lawlessone »

esskay wrote: post #380
CalRobert wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This bizarre romanticization of autism is frustrating for those who are or have loved ones who are nonverbal, stim all day, etc.. I almost wonder if nerfing autism to the point where it's a fun thing to talk about having on tiktok is a way to demonize effective interventions so insurance companies won't have to pay for them.

It's been a similar pattern with ADHD, it feels like its almost been turned into a trend. Although that being said we've had a number of people at our place been diagnosed with ADHD, Autism and in some cases both, all developers, all within the last 3-5 years, and you know what, they're absolutely correct diagnosis. It's a mix of romanticization and a change in acceptance and understanding of the two, and they do oft…

I had a very similar experience to yourself.

Didn't investigate and get treatment until it imploded my career...

The people that think it's trendy are young, they often live at home with parents so I think it's a case of their ADHD / austism not yet having serious repercussion's.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#437

Post by dfxm12 »

Was the reaction to that excerpt of Karikó's book really that bad? The author mentions one deleted tweet, but nothing else specific.

I ask because I hear/read very similar things to what she wrote from people in all kinds of fields (not just STEM or academia).

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#438

Post by philwelch »

myself248 wrote: post #163

I wish I had a source for it right now, but years ago I heard an anecdoate that Bell Labs had essentially dorms/hotels for scientists, where things like cooking and laundry were taken care of, so they could focus on their research. This had the effect of embracing those people who hadn't necessarily figured out how to be independent adults. As long as they were lucky enough to be identified and brilliant enough to be…

Big tech companies like Google and Facebook?

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#439

Post by edelsohn »

When it becomes beneficial to game a system (fame, power, money), people will learn to game the system. "Weird Nerds" weren't drawn to their interests with the intent to game the system. Sometimes "weird nerds" can achieve more success if they find a political animal who recognizes the benefit of teaming with them.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#440

Post by itsoktocry »

CalRobert wrote: post #343
ianbicking wrote: post #4

There's definitely been a move to demand individuals be good at everything... old stereotypes of the nerd brought a lot of negatives, but they were also apologetic, acknowledging the trade off, that paying attention deeply to one thing does lead to being worse at other things. The exact stereotype differed by domain... the performer who is a diva, the self destructive author, the manic artist... each with a hint of n…

This bizarre romanticization of autism is frustrating for those who are or have loved ones who are nonverbal, stim all day, etc.. I almost wonder if nerfing autism to the point where it's a fun thing to talk about having on tiktok is a way to demonize effective interventions so insurance companies won't have to pay for them.

>This bizarre romanticization of autism is frustrating for those who are or have loved ones who are nonverbal, stim all day, etc..

Look at every thread about the subject on these boards: it's filled with people claiming to be "on the spectrum" (aren't we all?).

>nerfing autism...is a way to demonize effective interventions so insurance companies won't have to pay for them

What a bizarre conspiracy. Are treatments even expensive?

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