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It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

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Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#81

Post by somenameforme »

ownagefool wrote: post #60
knallfrosch wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree. You need to cook your food. You need to exert energy to move (walk, run, or cycle instead of car.) You need to communicate face-to-face, instead of with a screen. Swimming is such a great feeling that I've never seen someone worry about an email while doing it. If you drive your car to a desk job where you sit in a zoom meeting all day and then stuff your face with food you bought, you're going to crash a…

Physical and mental well-being are likely linked. Take for example a diet that causes gut problems, which then causes anxiety to manifest physically, which result in anti-depressant medication, which you guessed it, cause gut problems. However, when a raise in mental-health issues correlate with a an inequality crisis, de-funding of mental health services, and lowering of national food standards ( UK, Brexit, Austeri…

I feel like inequality is often used as a sort of scape goat in topics like this. The reason is that though we obviously have inequality that's in raw numbers substantially greater than ever before, it's also a very different form than in the past. In the past being poor meant you were probably living in makeshift housing, had no 'privileges' like plumbing or clean water, and could easily slip into genuine starvation if things got even slightly worse.

In modern times, obesity is one of the biggest health issues among the poor. The poor of times past would think we're living in a utopia. And in terms of "stuff" we probably are, but it doesn't feel like a utopia because it obviously isn't. Current times are probably the best evidence imaginable that all of the things we relatively ignore in terms of quality of life (family, nature, philosophy/purpose, and so on) are, at the minimum, no less important than the things we obsess over like income, education, and sexuality.

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#82

Post by yuriks »

a-french-anon wrote: post #69
red1reaper wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had to describe ADHD to a layperson so they can understand what means to have ADHD... I would describe as to having something in your brain that you don't control that is always conspiring to get you to do nothing, if it fails to have you doing anything but what you want/should be doing; Wherever this is accomplished by making you forget, distracting you, robbing your willpower, making it hard to concentrate, ma…

This is the first time I've read a description of ADHD, even if it's plastered everywhere on the Web, so consider my reaction genuine and not intended to offend: isn't this just a mix of lack of willpower (potentially subconscious, which could explain the "forgetting" part) and ennui/depression? In french, we have the word "flemme" that can be approximately translated into "laziness", but it's a bit different, becaus…

I think it's slightly different than that, in my experience as someone with both ADHD and occasional struggles with depression. For depression, there is this distinct sense of ennui, or that things aren't worth bothering with, that feels present enough emotionally to "identify" with as part of your intent.

But when that's not there, the ADHD ends up manifesting as this sort of detachment of my own thoughts and feelings from my actions. I may be doing something, and there will be in many cases an internal train of thought that's recognizing that there's something else important I should be doing (say, stop engaging with a hobby and go to sleep), and understanding and being alarmed of the consequences of not doing so, but even with that conscience desperately pleading to act on it, for whatever reason, there's a disconnect that makes it not persuasive enough to take action on. And so I stay up late, not wanting that and fully knowing it's a bad idea.

That tends to lead to a lot of mental anguish, and it did unfortunately eventually develop into a sense of futility for me. Because "learning from your mistakes" ends up being ineffective, since you can't use that knowledge to reliably persuade yourself anyway. Before that I instead was just constantly confused and disappointed in myself for not being strong enough to resist it like I was always told I should be able to, if I really believed in it. I'm honestly still not sure which of the two is a better mentality to have, I'd say they both felt catastrophic or occasionally helpful for me at different times in life.

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#83

Post by 4gotunameagain »

ownagefool wrote: post #60
knallfrosch wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree. You need to cook your food. You need to exert energy to move (walk, run, or cycle instead of car.) You need to communicate face-to-face, instead of with a screen. Swimming is such a great feeling that I've never seen someone worry about an email while doing it. If you drive your car to a desk job where you sit in a zoom meeting all day and then stuff your face with food you bought, you're going to crash a…

Physical and mental well-being are likely linked. Take for example a diet that causes gut problems, which then causes anxiety to manifest physically, which result in anti-depressant medication, which you guessed it, cause gut problems. However, when a raise in mental-health issues correlate with a an inequality crisis, de-funding of mental health services, and lowering of national food standards ( UK, Brexit, Austeri…

  Mens sana in corpore sano
(a healthy mind in a healthy body)

Juvenal - 2nd century AD

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#84

Post by 4gotunameagain »

konschubert wrote: post #79
knallfrosch wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree. You need to cook your food. You need to exert energy to move (walk, run, or cycle instead of car.) You need to communicate face-to-face, instead of with a screen. Swimming is such a great feeling that I've never seen someone worry about an email while doing it. If you drive your car to a desk job where you sit in a zoom meeting all day and then stuff your face with food you bought, you're going to crash a…

Counterpoint: I have worried about emails while swimming.

Antithesis:

I have worried about swimming while emailing.

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#85

Post by guerrilla »

can16358p wrote: post #25

I strongly believe we don't have "mental health problems", yet we have a global style of living in "modern society" that is inherently incompatible with the way we evolved: e.g. office-based daily tasks instead of walking and hunting, foods fabricated to stimulate us instead of what we could find in nature, high buildings and cities with sound/light/air pollution instead of a calm, clean nature, always trying to "opt…

This is an important part of the story and I agree that it accounts for most mental illness but certainly not all. Illnesses such as schizophrenia and autism exist and while society can make them worse, there are obviously strong biological components.

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#86

Post by kombookcha »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #80
kombookcha wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly. I'm an anthropologist by training, where extensive fieldwork is the gold standard. Second to this comes a great deal of methodological nerd stuff (IE how to make sure you get good data from all that fieldwork). 'Theory' is mostly subsumed into this, and essentially comes in the form of securing the epistemic quality of the method. I'm passingly familiar with sociology, area studies, cultural studies and li…

> If your baseline is a questionaire, then the questions you would think to ask are going to be informed by your preconceived notions of the issue, and you're forcing the raw data out there to conform to these formats you've set for it. Generally, you'd run a bunch of interviews to develop a question bank, and then run a bunch of pilots to figure out which set of questions work best. I do agree that there's a big pro…

That's a very interesting perspective, thank you. If you don't mind me asking, do you have a sense of why this feels necessary in psych - is it deference to some preferred school of thought that needs to sign off on your work, or is it more that you need to signal that you know lots of theory? How did you go about it, when they made you put in a theory chapter?

What would happen if you turned in some psych work that was robust in its method, but without explicit references to theory?

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#87

Post by zer00eyz »

reverius42 wrote: post #74
zer00eyz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the past few decades we changed completely how we are supposed to live... outdoor activity, sunlight, bonding in close communities, quiet time It's more like 100 years for this division. > continuous stimuli and artificially induced anxiety and stress of modern world Is anxiety artificial? 400k years ago, humanity emerges. 40k years ago we finish raping and murdering the last of our close ancestors off the face…

> 2 generations ago you were lucky to make it out of a major war... the ones we have had since have been mild and voluntary. That's only true if you're talking specifically about US-involved wars, from the US side of things. For a lot of people, the Iraq War (for instance) was neither mild nor voluntary.

Strong point I should have made the US/western nature of my comment far more clear.

To expand on what you're saying I think many of people who have lived through those wars would look at our "western" complaints of stress and anxiety as abject nonsense. And thats not to be dismissive of what people "feel" were built in to be hyper on guard based on history.

I have a corollary to this: a lot of people in tech, who are great at their shitty office job, they all have some terrible job in their path that they will happily tell you they never want to go back to.

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#88

Post by peepee1982 »

somenameforme wrote: post #81
ownagefool wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical and mental well-being are likely linked. Take for example a diet that causes gut problems, which then causes anxiety to manifest physically, which result in anti-depressant medication, which you guessed it, cause gut problems. However, when a raise in mental-health issues correlate with a an inequality crisis, de-funding of mental health services, and lowering of national food standards ( UK, Brexit, Austeri…

I feel like inequality is often used as a sort of scape goat in topics like this. The reason is that though we obviously have inequality that's in raw numbers substantially greater than ever before, it's also a very different form than in the past. In the past being poor meant you were probably living in makeshift housing, had no 'privileges' like plumbing or clean water, and could easily slip into genuine starvation…

I understand your perspective, but I believe it's important to recognize the complex role inequality plays in modern society.

While it's true that overall living conditions have improved, with more access to amenities like plumbing and clean water, this doesn't mean inequality has lost its relevance. Inequality still has a profound impact on mental health, social cohesion, and overall well-being.

Many people in developed countries live in makeshift housing without basic necessities like electricity, plumbing, and clean water. This indicates that not everyone benefits equally from societal advancements, and calling these amenities "privileges" overlooks their fundamental importance.

Furthermore, while obesity is indeed a prevalent issue among the poor today, it often results from limited access to healthy food options, which is another manifestation of inequality. You also mentioned that inequality contributes to obesity, so dismissing it as a scapegoat contradicts this observation.

The poor of the past might view our access to "stuff" as utopian, but they wouldn't likely see the lives of today's poor in the same light. Improved material conditions don't necessarily translate to improved quality of life, especially when disparities in wealth and opportunity persist. Quality of life involves more than just material wealth; it encompasses family, community, purpose, and other non-material aspects. Inequality affects all these dimensions, making it a crucial issue to address.

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#89

Post by ImHereToVote »

red1reaper wrote: post #34
xlii wrote: post #12

I agree, but on the other hand I don’t think anyone can do anything. I have a stake in treating ADHD but it’s difficult to even describe what ADHD is to a layperson. Describing the needs is almost impossible as different people have different needs and they often don’t align. What I’m sure of, though, is that “today” is very hostile to mental health. Some people have been focusing on microplastics, impact of drugs, u…

If I had to describe ADHD to a layperson so they can understand what means to have ADHD... I would describe as to having something in your brain that you don't control that is always conspiring to get you to do nothing, if it fails to have you doing anything but what you want/should be doing; Wherever this is accomplished by making you forget, distracting you, robbing your willpower, making it hard to concentrate, ma…

That sounds very tiring. It's almost as though you described the experience of a normal person. I'm fairly sure you are supposed to struggle out of this weak mindset with intention, just like everybody else does.

Re: It is time for more holistic practices in mental health

#90

Post by cl3misch »

> How can this situation be changed? First, psychiatry must reduce medicalization as a commitment to doing no harm, by engaging in the multidimensional construction of alternatives to the conventional paradigm, which despite being dominant, is ineffective in the face of the complex challenges that involve mental care, such as stigma, social exclusion, and violation of rights.

I don't want to be flippant, especially not when discussing mental health. Still, how can you look at this sentence and think "yep, that's a good way to communicate my message"?

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