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11th grade

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Re: 11th grade

#101

Post by Raphael »

david927 wrote: post #99
GHFigs wrote: post #10

Ah, 11th grade. That's the year I both failed English (with an A average in classwork and a B on exams, because of an F in homework) and taught myself enough Perl to create a sample-based text-to-speech system inspired by Evolution Control Committee's "Rocked by Rape". Call me crazy, but I still think being able to make Dan Rather say "wild and wooly Nazi war criminals hooked on drugs and drinking binges bug out on f…

> Call me crazy Ok, you're crazy. The problem is, learning Perl allowed you to essentially get a fish for a day. Perl is not going to last. What you learned was essentially how to get a Rube Goldberg contraption to do what you wanted. The symbolism in Huck Finn, however, is eternal. You can then read any great book, or look at any work of art, and understand it at a better level. What you've done is learned how to fi…

It's not inherently less enriching, just a different skill. Learning Perl can allow him to understand code and algorithms at a deeper level.

Putting extra effort into high school English can be totally worth it, but it is a personal preference that shouldn't be pushed on the unwilling.

Re: 11th grade

#102

Post by Raphael »

tome wrote: post #33
tptacek wrote: post #13

Putting it in a poorly-drawn web cartoon doesn't automatically make a trivial observation funny. Isn't this the topic of, like, 438973489 blog posts and essays?

This sums it up well for me: http://plover.net/~bonds/asdf.html

That'll put Munroe in his place.

Re: 11th grade

#103

Post by Raphael »

markessien wrote: post #29
jackowayed wrote: post #2

When I saw this, my first reaction was "Randall is stalking me." I'm in 11th grade. It's Ruby, not Perl, and regular, not just a weekend, but it's basically my life. All the school work I have leaves me not enough hacking time. I wish I could get sucked into a startup so I'd have a reason to drop out.

When you first start coding, it's very addictive, because it gives you frequent 'success bursts'. All you're doing is chasing endorphins, you are likely not actually writing anything useful. You think it is, but it's rather rare that people of that age actually code any good. You're physiologically addicted to this, if you drop out of school, you'll have a lot of company in all the other people who are addicted to ot…

Wow, that explains how I can code all the time but just tread water except for a few weeks a year.

Re: 11th grade

#104

Post by Raphael »

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #91

save two years off your life by taking the GED and attending community college for credit if your parents will let you. when your friends are graduating high school and becoming freshmen at universities, you'll be a transferring junior. the lower division stuff at college is what high school courses should be.

Ha. My mom told me to do exactly this, but I wasn't ready to abandon my friends and safe, familiar school.

It seemed daunting faced with yet another 4 years of school, college, and I had fantasies about dropping out in the middle when a business starts to take off. But the first 1/12 went by in the blink of an eye, so this is looking actually doable. Plus, many at this age would much rather be in college than working a boring job, so it would be short-sighted to run away from such an appealing community.

Re: 11th grade

#105

Post by Raphael »

mantas wrote: post #14

My 11th grade: Coding at night Sleeping at school :p Hoeworks? I thought they dont give any after 8th grade..

Homework is at the discretion of the teacher, and is also highly correlated to subject. For example, math might be every day, history once a week or so, and a couple gym class health assignments the whole year. But it seems to have nothing to do with what grade you're in. I thought that writing assignments would gradually get longer, but my final essay senior year was half the length of my 7th grade science report on the human body, so I was clearly mistaken.

I always thought the whole sleeping at school thing was pretty lame. I can't say I haven't nodded off a few times, but it seems disrespectful to your teacher and peers. Although, it is a pretty funny break from material when the teacher creatively awakens or badgers the offender. (Or, best of all, let's them sleep through to the next period and awake to utter confusion.)

Re: 11th grade

#106

Post by david927 »

Raphael wrote: post #101
david927 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Call me crazy Ok, you're crazy. The problem is, learning Perl allowed you to essentially get a fish for a day. Perl is not going to last. What you learned was essentially how to get a Rube Goldberg contraption to do what you wanted. The symbolism in Huck Finn, however, is eternal. You can then read any great book, or look at any work of art, and understand it at a better level. What you've done is learned how to fi…

It's not inherently less enriching, just a different skill. Learning Perl can allow him to understand code and algorithms at a deeper level. Putting extra effort into high school English can be totally worth it, but it is a personal preference that shouldn't be pushed on the unwilling.

I disagree that it's a personal preference. Just as some tastes need to be acquired, so does much of understanding (as with art). The first 10 times I heard Bob Marley (& Tom Waits, Arcade Fire,...) I didn't get it. Then, suddenly, I understood and now I love it. The first time I saw Van Gogh sunflowers on the wall of a friend's house I was 16 and I said, WTF? It's not a "personal preference" and I don't believe it's something you let kids decide on their own. (Picasso is crap? Ok, Billy, if you say so!) Instead, you push them a bit to essentially "listen to Bob Marley ten times". If they don't get it after that, too bad, but at least they had a chance.

Learning Perl isn't value-less, but it doesn't compare on any scale to trying "to acquire the understanding" of Huck Finn.

Re: 11th grade

#107

Post by gamache »

Raphael wrote: post #100
GHFigs wrote: post #10

Ah, 11th grade. That's the year I both failed English (with an A average in classwork and a B on exams, because of an F in homework) and taught myself enough Perl to create a sample-based text-to-speech system inspired by Evolution Control Committee's "Rocked by Rape". Call me crazy, but I still think being able to make Dan Rather say "wild and wooly Nazi war criminals hooked on drugs and drinking binges bug out on f…

Of course, Huck and Tom are the ultimate in mischief and going against establishment, so it's ironic that it has become the study material of forced assignments.

Tom is the anti-establishment, mischievous one -- he's set up with a family, so he has the room for mischief. Huck has no family, no one other than a drunk bum dad. He's interested in Tom's mischief, and that's his strongest connection to childhood, but mostly he's grown up beyond his years because he needs to take care of himself all the time.

Re: 11th grade

#108

Post by Raphael »

david927 wrote: post #106
Raphael wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not inherently less enriching, just a different skill. Learning Perl can allow him to understand code and algorithms at a deeper level. Putting extra effort into high school English can be totally worth it, but it is a personal preference that shouldn't be pushed on the unwilling.

I disagree that it's a personal preference. Just as some tastes need to be acquired, so does much of understanding (as with art). The first 10 times I heard Bob Marley (& Tom Waits, Arcade Fire,...) I didn't get it. Then, suddenly, I understood and now I love it. The first time I saw Van Gogh sunflowers on the wall of a friend's house I was 16 and I said, WTF? It's not a "personal preference" and I don't believe it's…

I really don't see any way to prove that one topic is more valuable than another.

I agree about acquired tastes; I've had a few myself. But people run away when something's pushed on them too harshly. Sometimes the cool assignments are the ones with a list of options (say, choose two from this list). It's an independent choice but still related to the material.

Re: 11th grade

#109

Post by Raphael »

gamache wrote: post #107
Raphael wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, Huck and Tom are the ultimate in mischief and going against establishment, so it's ironic that it has become the study material of forced assignments.

Tom is the anti-establishment, mischievous one -- he's set up with a family, so he has the room for mischief. Huck has no family, no one other than a drunk bum dad. He's interested in Tom's mischief, and that's his strongest connection to childhood, but mostly he's grown up beyond his years because he needs to take care of himself all the time.

Thanks. I am a bit hazy from not reading too thoroughly and mostly picking it up from spoofs.

Re: 11th grade

#110

Post by jimbokun »

Retric wrote: post #89
timr wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Er, what exactly is intellectual about 1300 hours of busy work?" I don't grant your premise. There's busywork in everything , and I never found high school to be worse than anything that has come later in life. We've all got to wait in the same line at the supermarket. When I read nerd complaints about formal education, I get the feeling that the prevailing sentiment is one of entitlement: "if I have to do anything…

It would be pointless for you to spend the next six weeks doing 3rd grade homework assignments. Back in 9th grade my geometry teacher graded homework assignments which I never did. The class was obvious and I got the highest grade on the midterm without studying or doing any homework. But, I still got a B because he felt busywork was important. Next year I had an English teacher who constantly gave out stupid vocabul…

"IMO busywork is why few high school valedictorians do anything interesting or meaningful with their lives."

Citation needed.

Is it really true that valedictorians perform worse than students with lower class rank, by any objective metric?

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