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Google Mesop: Build web apps in Python

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71–78 of 78 posts

Re: Google Mesop: Build web apps in Python

#71
post #27

Disregarding all of the negative sentiment and claims of this repeating old work, I must say the source code is very fun to go through. The code is well-structured, integrates many awesome technologies and provides a foundation to build on. The project is the clearly the result of a high caliber level of craftsmanship and labor of love, great work Will Chen (wwwillchen) and others!

I agree with you, with just one exception - hardcoding ANSI escape sequences in strings (yes, a pet peeve of mine).

https://github.com/google/mesop/blob/fa17bcdcd765adef4b3259e...

Re: Google Mesop: Build web apps in Python

#72
post #44
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Python foundational team was less than 10 people. If you think any 10 person team in a 200,000 employee corporation is that critical well I’d have to disagree When their jobs were moved to Munich there was a lot of discussion about how important they were, but something else stood out to me. One of the things they accomplished was taking over a year to make sure the monorepo can be upgraded to the latest versi…

What? The monorepo is huge that sounds like a nightmare to coordinate across so many engineers and such a huge codebase

IF every package in the monorepo is forced to use the same exact version then there would exist literally thousands of these teams, even tens of thousands, which I doubt

I don’t really believe if I go to 500 Google owned websites I will find the exact same version of angular everywhere

Re: Google Mesop: Build web apps in Python

#73
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The official documentation for releasing personal projects at Google is externally available: https://opensource.google/documentation/reference I believe many of the repos in the @google GitHub org are people's personal projects (and hence not officially staffed/supported, as disclaimed). In the linked Show HN, the authors confirm it's a 20% side project.

some of them; others are internal tools used at google that the company is happy to let the devs open source, but which are not official google "products". my main project when I was at google was in that category: https://github.com/google/pytype - it was not an "official google product" in that google was not officially supporting it for external users, but it's an extensively used product within google and develop…

Very true.

I just wanted to point out that just because something is in the @google org, doesn't mean it should be thought of as Google .

Re: Google Mesop: Build web apps in Python

#74
I have quite a few ideas for web sites or web apps but JavaScript syntax and HTML/CSS web modelling is turning me off so I wonder would this be feasible for simple experimental web app/s? I also explored Golang which also has easy to pick up syntax as Python and it is also easy to build web apps with it so I kinda dunno where to start.

Re: Google Mesop: Build web apps in Python

#75
post #37
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong! I feel like we both see the future

> Strong! I feel like we both see the future You must be the Oracle of Delphi. Now that would be a nice product name for a visual IDE.

I can’t believe what a rich vein of originality we have formed with this thread. Watch and learn, nerds!

Re: Google Mesop: Build web apps in Python

#76
post #72
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? The monorepo is huge that sounds like a nightmare to coordinate across so many engineers and such a huge codebase

IF every package in the monorepo is forced to use the same exact version then there would exist literally thousands of these teams, even tens of thousands, which I doubt I don’t really believe if I go to 500 Google owned websites I will find the exact same version of angular everywhere

every package in the monorepo did indeed need to use the same exact version of python. the python interpreter itself is part of the monorepo, and all other python code builds and runs that binary.

the python team did not personally upgrade every line of code to work with a new python version, we made sure that the code could be upgraded and got the people maintaining each package to do the upgrade. (a missing piece of the puzzle is that every package, even mirrored third party code, has an official owner responsible for keeping it working within google).

what the python team needed to do was upgrade all the tooling (build system, linter, type checker, etc) to work with the new version, run large scale tests to see what would break in an upgrade, analyse the dependency graph to figure out what order packages needed to be fixed in (e.g. if numpy needed to be upgraded that would be super high priority because thousands of other packages depend on it, and we might even pitch in and help the team maintaining it with that if needed), and track the progress of the upgrades, communicating with teams whose code hadn't been upgraded so that they could prioritise the work.

sometimes we also needed to write automated refactorings to fix some basic code pattern that changed, e.g. if some very widely used library decided it was going to stop accepting numbers where it needed strings, and that the caller should do the conversion first, we would try to mechanically fix that across the codebase rather than make everyone do it themselves.

anyway, this is all to say that it was indeed a large and time consuming problem, and we were certainly not doing it because we had nothing better to do with our time.

Re: Google Mesop: Build web apps in Python

#77

IMO it's better long-term for an individual to just learn Next.js, React, Tailwind.css (my preference), and TypeScript. You will be a better developer than using something like this.

Those sound like tools used to build a production, customer-facing webapp. Whereas this framework and others like it seem targeted at internal things, like some buttons and textboxes for an internal "admin" page or similar.

If you already know next.js you can very quickly throw together internal things too.

If you don't know it then it might take a while.

Re: Google Mesop: Build web apps in Python

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: you have made a fun and interesting thing in Python that works great in your command line/Jupyter notebook. You want to share it with your non-developer friends/anyone who might be interested, so you need some kind of interactive GUI, and the easiest one is a web page of some kind. But you don't want to learn a whole new stack because web development is really not Your Thing. So you use something like D…

That's a great question. And I completely agree. It's become extremely common to obfuscate client code or throw together 5 NPM packages into a frontend framework to justify "rapid development". Here are a few websites that have great UX and readable source code. For each, you can view source and understand how the page is structured, styled and made interactive: - https://tour.gleam.run , interactive code tutorial -…

Thanks - those are very interesting. I fully agree that building UIs with Python is not better in objective terms; I just think it's more convenient if all you want is a minimal interface.
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