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The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

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Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#351

Post by kazinator »

faeriechangling wrote: post #320
alpaca128 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ask autistic men or how did you come to that weird conclusion? They likely mask just as much as women, even if you may not notice from the outside (which is the point of masking). I agree about medicine not really being the solution, though. If an environment requires masking all meds can do is suppress symptoms, at best.

CAT-Q survey results mostly, a screening tool designed to detect masking, and autistic men report masking a statistically insignificant less than neurotypical men. Autistic women report masking a statistically insignificant more than neurotypical women. But the women did report masking a significant amount more than the men. Not strong evidence but what exactly is the evidence that autistics are going around masking…

It seems like a no-brainer to me. Women are more expected than men to exhibit emotional intelligence. To be understanding and supportive toward others and so on. A woman exhibiting autistic traits will be judged more negatively than a man, and so may feel more pressure to conceal them.

For instance, a woman who doesn't react in certain ways to someone's cute baby is some kind of child-hating alien monster.

The man who doesn't react in those ways is assumed to be wanting to do that, but actually masking in the other direction so as not to appear effeminate.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#352

Post by corinroyal »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #219

I'm a bit "spectrumish." It's definitely way better, this late in life, than it was, when I was younger, but it's still there, if you know what to look for (my wife knows what to look for). One aspect of it, that has always been a part of the package, is that folks Just. Don't. Like. Me. Most, if questioned about their dislike, may come up with a couple of things, like "He's abrupt," or "He's arrogant," but these are…

> "He's abrupt," or "He's arrogant," ... "angry bastard."

It sounds like those are totally fixable personality defects, yet here you are acting persecuted and making excuses. What if you didn't blame other people and instead took responsibility for your own off-putting behavior?

I've worked with too many men who think they're too special to follow social etiquette, when they are actually just garden-variety jerks who use their nerd identity as a get out of jail free card.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#353

Post by [deleted] »

CalRobert wrote: post #343
ianbicking wrote: post #4

There's definitely been a move to demand individuals be good at everything... old stereotypes of the nerd brought a lot of negatives, but they were also apologetic, acknowledging the trade off, that paying attention deeply to one thing does lead to being worse at other things. The exact stereotype differed by domain... the performer who is a diva, the self destructive author, the manic artist... each with a hint of n…

This bizarre romanticization of autism is frustrating for those who are or have loved ones who are nonverbal, stim all day, etc.. I almost wonder if nerfing autism to the point where it's a fun thing to talk about having on tiktok is a way to demonize effective interventions so insurance companies won't have to pay for them.

[deleted]

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#354

Post by intended »

faeriechangling wrote: post #290
alistairSH wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do some people's problems get the validation of the medical system and others don't? Very roughly, because some people can't function without intervention (for loose definitions of "function"). And some treatment (therapy, drugs, whatever) can help them function. Autism 1/Aspergers is sometimes kind of borderline - some people can function with it, but it can exact a heavy tool on them as a sibling comment noted.…

I asked this elsewhere but will ask this here - does calling people autistic and medicalising actually prevent misery, depression, and suicide? This whole thought that autistic people who appear to have no problems are all secretly on the verge of not just burnout, but AUTISTIC burnout and will tailspin into the nether at any moment is a recent idea I have yet to see any actual evidence of other than self-report. The…

There is survivorship bias at play as well.

Theres people who go in and DONT get diagnosed with ASD, but get found out to be having other issues, ranging from endocrine to trauma.

The evidence for treatment is the improvement in quality of life for people who do manage to get help.

The control would be people whose challenges make their lives, and the lives of those around them, harder.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#355

Post by [deleted] »

alistairSH wrote: post #276
ergonaught wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is anyone truly normal or neurotypical Yes. I get that your questions appear to be sincere and genuine, but, yes. Relative to the actual, demonstrable, neurological differences in connectivity and so forth in the “neurodivergent” brain, the overwhelming majority of people are “normal”. Relative to the actual lived experience of “neurodivergents”, the overwhelming majority of people are “normal”. These kinds of ques…

Much like people who don’t have aphantasia speaking to people who do. And so forth. Aphantasia is one that I find extremely hard to wrap my head around. The notion that somebody who’s otherwise normal can’t visualize things is really interesting. I have a friend who has it. The only outward symptom is his dislike of fiction and most TV/movies (and you’d only notice that if you knew him fairly well).

[deleted]

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#356

Post by qq66 »

walt_grata wrote: post #45
ianbicking wrote: post #4

There's definitely been a move to demand individuals be good at everything... old stereotypes of the nerd brought a lot of negatives, but they were also apologetic, acknowledging the trade off, that paying attention deeply to one thing does lead to being worse at other things. The exact stereotype differed by domain... the performer who is a diva, the self destructive author, the manic artist... each with a hint of n…

I duno on some of that. Until I was about 39 I was a "weird nerd" and then my wife (Dr of special education) finally convinced me to talk to a Dr and get get tested for autism. Turns out I'm ASD 1, would have been Asperger's in the past. Autism has a very wide range of ways it shows itself.

Do you think that receiving this diagnosis increased or decreased your happiness?

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#357

Post by cbozeman »

bsder wrote: post #287
cbozeman wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're out of your depth." That's what you do. A lot of very smart people think because they're very smart they have some kind of exceptional insight into the inner workings of all things. They don't. And they need to be reminded of that. Intelligence allows someone to gain that insight faster than those in the middle of the bell curve of IQ, but it doesn't magically confer it . It still takes time, reading, researc…

> "You're out of your depth." Except most of the time ... they are not. Most non-junior WNs learn to have significant respect for those doing the work . The Weird Nerd judges based upon objectively observed behavior rather than social cues or group opinions. Mostly, the Weird Nerd gets in trouble because they simply aren't fooled. And that pisses of corporatocrats like you worse than anything else. The WN can see tha…

> And that pisses of corporatocrats like you worse than anything else.

Congratulations, you've shown you don't know how the world actually works. This is called "Weird Nerd" but it really means, "Someone who can't operate within society and thus is forced to suffer because they'll do the hard work of building or designing something, but won't do the hard work of understanding human beings."

First, go learn how the world actually works. Not the way you clearly - and incorrectly - believe it to work - the way it actually works. Then once you figure out how to operate within the system, you might actually get something worthwhile done.

> The Weird Nerd judges based upon objectively observed behavior rather than social cues or group opinions.

This is why they so consistently fail.

> Mostly, the Weird Nerd gets in trouble because they simply aren't fooled.

They get in trouble because they have an incorrect mental model of the world and are instead stuck in how they think the world "ought" to work, instead of how it "actually" works.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#358

Post by intended »

rustyboy wrote: post #225
detourdog wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The disorder is how they affect their social surroundings. Everyone is on the spectrum and the disordered are having social problems.

Out of curiosity, given it is a spectrum, what's at the other end of "really" autisitc (if that's even the right word) or does that just go from 0 being "normal" to 1 being that "really"?

It’s a spectrum because someone can be incredibly able to understand and relate to people, but completely unable to verbalize and communicate effectively. Conversely someone else can communicate just fine, but has major challenges in ‘modeling’, empathizing, or understanding the behaviors of others.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#359

Post by [deleted] »

faeriechangling wrote: post #315
majormajor wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How has autism diagnosis stopped any of this from happening? People are absolutely unapologetic about calling autistic men creepy in particular. It hasn't stopped it completely but now you've got a LOT more resources available to use to do something about it. And there are many more who will say something like "hey, you should look into this stuff" instead of just simply shunning and shaming than there were 40 year…

When I talk to autistic men there's often a huffy entitlement that being called creepy is a form of discrimination, since autism itself is seen as "Creepy" independent of any objectively or intentionally creepy behaviour, and spend their time self-victimising instead of thinking about how they could change to avoid creeping out others. I see them get despondent that they have a disorder which means they can definitio…

[deleted]

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#360

Post by cbozeman »

mmcgaha wrote: post #212
cbozeman wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're out of your depth." That's what you do. A lot of very smart people think because they're very smart they have some kind of exceptional insight into the inner workings of all things. They don't. And they need to be reminded of that. Intelligence allows someone to gain that insight faster than those in the middle of the bell curve of IQ, but it doesn't magically confer it . It still takes time, reading, researc…

A better response would be to tell them you are done trying to convince them because you own the responsibility and consequences of the decision. "You're out of your depth" is an insult and is intended to be one.

"You're out of your depth" is an insult to someone with an excessive ego.

If you're not actually out of your depth, you won't be insulted by it.

I don't get insulted when someone says I'm stupid. Because that is not true, and I know it isn't true. It isn't the things we know to be untrue that insults us - it's the things that we know to be true, that we can't accept - or even worse - can't see about ourselves that insult us.

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