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The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

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Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#341

Post by iraqmtpizza »

ocschwar wrote: post #322
faeriechangling wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked this elsewhere but will ask this here - does calling people autistic and medicalising actually prevent misery, depression, and suicide? This whole thought that autistic people who appear to have no problems are all secretly on the verge of not just burnout, but AUTISTIC burnout and will tailspin into the nether at any moment is a recent idea I have yet to see any actual evidence of other than self-report. The…

Non-falsifiability on account of self-report is a pervasive problem in mental health. But just because something isn't falsifiable doesn't mean it isn't true. If I told you I had to consciously monitor my tone of voice, and mannerisms, and level of eye contact to pass for normal, and had to silently drill these things in my mind before starting or joining a conversation, that I basically had to be like a method actor…

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Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#342

Post by iraqmtpizza »

detourdog wrote: post #173
faeriechangling wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really accept the validity of people who are generally more functional and conventionally successful than average being called "disordered" in the first place. It seems like a weird arbitrary insistence of the medical system to simply pathologize anybody who fits into a certain box.

The disorder is how they affect their social surroundings. Everyone is on the spectrum and the disordered are having social problems.

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Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#343

Post by CalRobert »

ianbicking wrote: post #4

There's definitely been a move to demand individuals be good at everything... old stereotypes of the nerd brought a lot of negatives, but they were also apologetic, acknowledging the trade off, that paying attention deeply to one thing does lead to being worse at other things. The exact stereotype differed by domain... the performer who is a diva, the self destructive author, the manic artist... each with a hint of n…

This bizarre romanticization of autism is frustrating for those who are or have loved ones who are nonverbal, stim all day, etc..

I almost wonder if nerfing autism to the point where it's a fun thing to talk about having on tiktok is a way to demonize effective interventions so insurance companies won't have to pay for them.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#344

Post by johnny22 »

faeriechangling wrote: post #301
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you actually understand modern clinical practice. We are surely better than where we were at in the middle ages with leaches and stuff, but there is still a lot of practice and experimentation to see what works and what doesn't, just evidence without hard proof. > the utility of diagnosis itself is taken for granted rather than actually proven. Given the topic of autism, I'm not sure if you are trying t…

>We are surely better than where we were at in the middle ages with leaches and stuff, but there is still a lot of practice and experimentation to see what works and what doesn't, just evidence without hard proof. Here's a question for you. When is the last time mental health outcomes improved in a way which could not simply be the result of reporting differences? I would say the last time was around the year 2000, w…

> So my essential objection is, why medicalise people's identities if there's no evidence it's improving people's outcomes?

20 years in a time of massive social changes? Would it really happen all so quickly? There are million things that could be making things worse. Heck, it could be case that without these treatments it'd be even worse. I don't know if that's true or not, but I'm saying consider the wider environment in which this is all happening.

It's impossible to really be sure either way. Maybe it's all garbage, maybe not. but make sure you're at least trying to look at the whole picture.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#345

Post by johnny22 »

folsom wrote: post #200
detourdog wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is to try to improve human relationships. Trying to understand why someone has consistent surprising/inappropriate reactions might help. The flip side is someone who consistently seems to be surprised by how people are reacting to them and wants better connections.

I do know that people do not like me. Don't get me wrong, my coworkers all get along with me and I think most enjoy working with me but in general people outside of work don't want to be around me. Hell I couldn't even keep my wife interested enough to stick with me. So how could we study what makes me turn off other people and have it make a difference in my life? It is unlikely that I would be able to change myself…

> So how could we study what makes me turn off other people and have it make a difference in my life? It is unlikely that I would be able to change myself and there is almost zero chance that whatever it is about me that disgusts others will change their natural reaction.

Highly unlikely, but you didn't rule it out completely. Plus there are others who also might be able to change.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#346

Post by ModernMech »

abracadaniel wrote: post #307
Forgeties79 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads kind of like “my parents hit me when I was younger and I turned out fine” though o highly doubt it’s your intention. Just because things seemingly turned out OK doesn’t mean the treatment was appropriate. In the same way, just because someone manages to “get by” doesn’t mean they don’t need to be diagnosed. It’s just making their life needlessly more difficult whereas they could yave more resources that re…

The anti-diagnosis attitude is surprising on a site like this. Everyone could do better with a better understanding of their own mind, whether it meets the criteria of a disorder or not. And with any kind of better understanding we need more and better categorizations.

A lot of people who post here meet the diagnostic criteria, and maybe they aren't ready to confront something new and scary about themselves. That's fine, it's something one needs to do when ready. Easier to say "That doesn't apply to me" if you're not ready to do the work; confronting an ASD diagnosis late in life is not an easy task.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#347

Post by corinroyal »

AlexandrB wrote: post #157

I think about this all the time in the context of the arts. Kanye, for example, definitely has extremely weird political ideas. He also created Dark Twisted Fantasy. The tolerance for this kind of "troubled genius" is dropping in artistic pursuits too. I wonder if that's why pop culture increasingly feels like a "content" slurry instead of anything identifiable.

So lack of respect for nazis with abhorrent personalities is what's dragging down the arts?

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#348

Post by hi-v-rocknroll »

I guess I'm biased because I worked with so many other comparatively "weird nerds" that were given some space to be themselves in nuclear energy from hoarding old WSJs to dripping burger sauces into their keyboards, and in an academic research department we had a PI who ran between his office and the elevator like I did until I was about 15-16 and someone clued me in.

One thing is to always be looking for one's own blindspots and examining how your or other people's behavior might be misinterpreted, and defusing any potential awkwardness with honesty and humor. For example, forgetfulness or anxiety rather than intentional snubbing. And err on the side of humor mixed with some self-deprecation and self-awareness because it demonstrates you're cool, reciprocate, are domesticated, and strive to not embarrass others intentionally.

A while back, the department dean was a mildly-weird nerd but developed politician-/salesman-like cheerfulness and political skills taking some of the burden off PIs and supporting them in whatever ways were needed to bring in the big grants, licensing deals, and industry collaboration. Having 2 expert, dedicated, highly-productive grant writers were also invaluable. The grad students were absolutely going places and startups were on the minds of about 80% of folks. It was a good spot to branch out from or build a research CV but there weren't profits to be had directly there.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#349

Post by kazinator »

Yes; with more and more people having degrees just to get into lame jobs that previously required no degree, academia necessarily changes away from being Weird Nerd ranch. Key positions of power in the academic organization will end up staffed by fewer Weird Nerds, making the structure less sympathetic toward Weird Nerds.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#350

Post by [deleted] »

walt_grata wrote: post #45
ianbicking wrote: post #4

There's definitely been a move to demand individuals be good at everything... old stereotypes of the nerd brought a lot of negatives, but they were also apologetic, acknowledging the trade off, that paying attention deeply to one thing does lead to being worse at other things. The exact stereotype differed by domain... the performer who is a diva, the self destructive author, the manic artist... each with a hint of n…

I duno on some of that. Until I was about 39 I was a "weird nerd" and then my wife (Dr of special education) finally convinced me to talk to a Dr and get get tested for autism. Turns out I'm ASD 1, would have been Asperger's in the past. Autism has a very wide range of ways it shows itself.

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