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Ultrasonic investigations in shopping centres

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Re: Ultrasonic investigations in shopping centres

#91
post #83

Very interesting. I can remember being able to hear a high pitched tone when I was 4-6 shopping with my mother in department stores that seemed to get louder when we approached flush mounted speakers in the ceiling. This article measures the frequencies and explains it's a normally operating feature of the systems.

I wonder how much of this sound pollution disproportionately affects autistic people. We need to make our soundscapes accessible.

Or the idea that the humans are just blissfully unaware while their 'hyper' cat/dog is stuck inside a home with some device screaming 24/7, LED lights flashing, etc.

Re: Ultrasonic investigations in shopping centres

#92

FM Radio transmitters broadcast a continuous 19 KHz pilot tone to indicate that it's a stereo broadcast. If it's present, then there's also a 38 KHz AM modulated carrier, which has the stereo information. The main FM modulation is (Left + Right) audio channels - the baseband. The 38 KHz subcarrier is (Left - Right). Notice that the stereo information is likely to be higher noise, being AM and without a lot of power.…

The unfiltered pilot tone was a problem when recording FM radio onto tape, beating against the bias tone and confusing Dolby NR into thinking there was constant sound. High-end cassette decks had an "MPX Filter" which was a sharp 19kHz filter before the recording system.

You betcha!

And FM broadcasts have a high-frequency pre-emphasis, which adds something like 10dB of boost to audio high frequencies. This is to reduce high frequency noise that occurs in analog FM systems. Radio receivers have a matching de-emphasis high-frequency cut.

Indeed, both vinyl phonographs and audio tape systems employ similar pre-emphasis and de-emphasis. It's the RIAA curve for phonographs. Not sure what the standard is for mag tape.

Re: Ultrasonic investigations in shopping centres

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for Tokyo, but there are streets in my American suburban neighborhood I avoid because of (presumably) animal-deterrent noises. I'm also 40, and surprisingly can still hear them - and an audiologist had my ears tested last month, and said my hearing is excellent for my age. Which is a bummer when I have to cycle around several blocks to avoid hearing the squeaks that are physically painful to my ears.

> squeaks that are physically painful Those may be covered under loud noise regulations, if the official measuring machinery has the cutoff frequency set high enough (no reason why not).

[deleted]

Re: Ultrasonic investigations in shopping centres

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for Tokyo, but there are streets in my American suburban neighborhood I avoid because of (presumably) animal-deterrent noises. I'm also 40, and surprisingly can still hear them - and an audiologist had my ears tested last month, and said my hearing is excellent for my age. Which is a bummer when I have to cycle around several blocks to avoid hearing the squeaks that are physically painful to my ears.

> squeaks that are physically painful Those may be covered under loud noise regulations, if the official measuring machinery has the cutoff frequency set high enough (no reason why not).

In my experience those regulations are only ever used to shut down parties with loud music. If it's any sort of industrial or non-obvious noise, good luck getting people to care about it. I have bad memories of complaining in an online community about the extremely loud safety beeps from construction vehicles operating next to my home and being told I was a monster because I must want children/workers to die - and that was a sound whose mere existence didn't need to be explained.

Re: Ultrasonic investigations in shopping centres

#95
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was young. My mother could not hear it and thought I was just being annoying. This is several decades ago, now I can barely hear my turn signal blinker and am preparing to emulate my father's practice of driving a few miles with his blinker on after signalling a lane change.

Long ago I made a conscious effort to turn off my blinker when I’m halfway into the next lane and now turn signals are like entirely subconscious for me.

I've been trying to break that particular habit, on the grounds that most of the purpose behind a turn signal is to indicate entry into a new lane rather than departure from the old one. Not sure what the law says about that, though.

Re: Ultrasonic investigations in shopping centres

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that can help is pressing the turn signal lever with less force than is needed to latch it. This should cause the indicator to flash three times and then stop. It’s an operating mode I wasn’t aware of for decades.

Not all cars do this, german car feature? (only VW's I've driven from 2000's onward seemed to have)

My Kia has it as well.

Re: Ultrasonic investigations in shopping centres

#98

I live in Japan, Tokyo, and sometimes I come across these annoying/distracting high-pitched noises even in residential areas. They are a nuisance for bypassers too, if you've got ears young enough. But the residential areas don't have any problem with loitering youngsters, so I keep wondering if the noise is targeted against pests or wild animals. This article made me think if I should seriously start measuring the v…

I've encountered this a few times in Tokyo myself; from memory at the very least outside of a mall in Shinjuku and outside of a building a block or two away from the Shibuya Scramble crossing. My traveling companion never noticed them until I pointed the sound out, so for those who find themselves in Japan pay attention if you notice a pressure in your ears and a high-frequency sound that seems to get more/less intense as you walk. If you follow the sound to its source you'll probably find that it seems to be coming from a metal trapezoidal horn, usually mounted from ceilings in places outside buildings from standard electrical junction box with exposed conduit. The sound itself is a constant, high frequency (18-20khz?) ring, and can get pretty intense as you approach the device.

I believe they're anti-loitering devices targeted at young people, who can hear a higher range of frequencies than older people. I've encountered them all over the US (if you're in the Bay, there's one mounted outside the Twin Peaks Tavern in Castro), though usually they pulse rather than emit a constant buzz. They're sporadic but common in Tokyo for sure, I encountered at least a dozen in the combined week or so I spent in various regions there. It was always creepy to me whenever I'd discover one, the sound was slightly nauseating if I ever got too close and left a strong negative impression, as though they were some sort of threat.

If anyone knows more specifics about these things btw, happy to have details. I spent a period of time trying to find the exact device but never could find any pictures of them, and unfortunately neglected to when I was actually in Japan.

Re: Ultrasonic investigations in shopping centres

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that can help is pressing the turn signal lever with less force than is needed to latch it. This should cause the indicator to flash three times and then stop. It’s an operating mode I wasn’t aware of for decades.

Not all cars do this, german car feature? (only VW's I've driven from 2000's onward seemed to have)

In those cases, you just hold the signal to the point of switch activation, then let go when done.

Re: Ultrasonic investigations in shopping centres

#100
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long ago I made a conscious effort to turn off my blinker when I’m halfway into the next lane and now turn signals are like entirely subconscious for me.

I've been trying to break that particular habit, on the grounds that most of the purpose behind a turn signal is to indicate entry into a new lane rather than departure from the old one. Not sure what the law says about that, though.

Both equally important.

If the signal is used sufficiently in advance (aka "indicating" your lane departure),

and you're not cutting things so close you need a blinker to fend off cars behind,

then there should be no problem turning it off once half of your vehicle is in the lane.

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