An absolute legend going out like a total badass. I know people will disagree but there is much to be said for living your life on your own terms and accepting the potential consequences without reservation. He was clearly one of those guys. He probably did not expect to die that day, but he knew he would die some day and he wasn’t going to nerf his life to buy a few more years.
Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash
241–250 of 264 posts
Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
You still need to get a physical (and sign off) from your primary doc every few years under BasicMed. Just not a full FAA flight physical. If someone has not had a documented physical at all in 8 years, they're not legal to fly. This is also a matter of public record, you can look up exactly what medical class he's operating under and when his last physical exam was on the FAA website. There no need to speculate. Edi…
The FAA only knows when you last took the BasicMed quiz and attested that you will follow the rules. Getting a physical, storing the form signed by the doctor, and maintaining a valid drivers license are up to the individual.
Yes, you could lie... but the documentation for the physical is part of your logbook and subject to audit. If I were a CFI, I would be checking that before signing off anyone's BFR. You can't really get away with this for long.
Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash
#243Was he doing loops/flips intentionally, or did he lose control of the plane? Either way, what an absolute legend to be flying solo at his age.
TLDW: the likely cause of the crash was low-level aerobatic maneuvering at an altitude of 700 to 1,000 ft, which is too low for such maneuvers. The pilot may have attempted a split S maneuver (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_S - aileron roll followed by a half loop) without getting the nose up high enough, ending up too low. It appears that the pilot had control of the airplane on the video, it wasn't stalled.
Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash
#244I once met Bill Anders on Orcas Island. Years ago I was making a video about describing a stone that I found on an Orcas beach, and I was consulting with geologists and biologists. I met at a local cafe with a marine biologist to get her opinion about barnacles on the stone. As we were talking, a man at the next table mentioned that he thought the stone was possibly volcanic. He also said he had a petrologist friend…
> I suspect his crash was a suicide. I wouldn't count on that. Most of us wouldn't do that to the aviation world. Decreases plane availability, especially for something like a T-34 Mentor, increases insurance rates, increases FAA stance on already asinine policies, etc. occams razor - he misjudged his aerobatics.
It's not really plausible that he misjudged the altitude. His altitude for that maneuver was about 2000 feet lower than it should have been. I've also flown a T-34 (my dad owned one on Orcas Island... I kind of wonder if Bill bought his from Dad) and did some aerobatics around Orcas. We were at much higher altitude.
Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Aviation contains a number of scenarios where pilots can (and do, not all that infrequently) slip from being in a safe situation to being in immediate danger without noticing the transition. I am aware of this (and as I already said this is why piloting requires greater focus ), but I don't see how that changes the fact that there actually is a transition that takes a heck of a lot longer than going from a complete…
"Focus" is a vague term; if it was supposed to encompass the sorts of scenario I wrote about, then I have provided some some specificity for third parties. Furthermore, I feel you did not fully comprehend what I was trying to say here, which is that there are certain scenarios where, if you have partially lost this "focus", you can suddenly find yourself in a situation where an immediate response of the correct kind…
And I'd flip it and say that you don't understand what I'm trying to say, which is that while flying routinely you would have to lose focus in order to end up in a situation where you are blindsided by a signal and need to act on it immediately, while when you are driving routinely you can be doing everything completely right and be paying the utmost attention and still need to react near-instantaneously to prevent disaster on a routine basis.
In fact, bringing up sudden equipment failure just sort of reinforces my point. The response to the vast majority of failures, even stuff as critical as an uncontained engine failure, is not to fast-twitch take some reflexive action, it's to work through a checklist (even memory items are still a checklist) to be sure you're actually taking the right action - and there are tolerances built into both internal and external systems to give pilots time to do that.
Or to put it another way, flying prioritises a slower and more methodical approach to operation than driving does - prioritises conscious over unconscious decision-making. I think this article by a pilot (https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/1994/june/pilot...) explains my point quite a bit better than I can.
Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dying in a last scream of fear, angst and struggle regretting a thousand things that may have gone wrong or maybe were just your fault, without having the chance to tell your loved ones how much you love them, and being remembered not only by the incredible flights where no one had gone before, but finally and uttermost by the one that ended your life which will be replayed endlessly in the internets. Not sure what w…
> Dying in a last scream of fear, angst and struggle regretting a thousand things that may have gone wrong or maybe were just your fault… I think you’re projecting. I didn’t know him obviously, but from what people who did have said about him, that doesn’t seem like the way he’d go out.
Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did I sound angry? I was just adressing the point that some people seem to value the circumstances of their death more, then the years before that. Wiliam Anders did what he wanted, fine by me, unless he actually was not fit to fly anymore (as this endangers other people), but no one had the guts to tell him that, being a national hero.
The expression is a social game to respond to death. It’s not real. We are not happy how he died. We are happy the way he lived. The game is to invert and mix the two. It’s a form of cognitive dissonance to manage our emotional response so it is positive not negative. You may not feel it yourself which is fine but appreciate that’s what others are doing. It’s not meant to be logical. It’s meant to be illogical.
Exactly.
> It's not real.
"Just because it's made up, doesn't mean it isn't real."
> It’s meant to be illogical.
Not at all. I have a big head, many things can fit into it at the same time. I can experience moderate amount of sadness over this specific person dying at this specific day. (Only a moderate amount because I didn't them personally, and for 90 year old dying is not that remarkable.) And at the same time feel happiness over that he kept flying that long during his life. One can experience both at the same time. If this is illogical to you wait until you taste some sweet and sour sauce.
Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Focus" is a vague term; if it was supposed to encompass the sorts of scenario I wrote about, then I have provided some some specificity for third parties. Furthermore, I feel you did not fully comprehend what I was trying to say here, which is that there are certain scenarios where, if you have partially lost this "focus", you can suddenly find yourself in a situation where an immediate response of the correct kind…
I'm not sure how focus is a vague term - I thought in this context it pretty clearly means a state of concentration/active attention. And I'd flip it and say that you don't understand what I'm trying to say, which is that while flying routinely you would have to lose focus in order to end up in a situation where you are blindsided by a signal and need to act on it immediately, while when you are driving routinely you…
What I am saying is an addendum to that broad point: situations do generally develop more slowly in the cruise stage of flight, but in those cases where they develop without the pilot being aware of that happening (which they can, and do in a small but not trivial number of cases), then they can present a situation requiring a near-instantaneous reaction to avoid disaster (if that opportunity has not already passed.)
By excluding takeoffs and landings, you are, of course, stacking the deck towards your point, especially if you take this to include flying in congested terminal airspace, particularly in IMC. By the time we exclude cases where the pilots are not doing everything right (and we had better exclude cases where other pilots, ATC and other external persons whose actions or failure to act could create a dangerous situation, and mechanical or systems failures that affect airplane controlability or structural integrity - all of these have led to disasters or near disasters), we have a point that is well-nigh unassailable, but bearing little relevance to the question of why airplanes crash.
The same goes for the linked article: it is is mostly right but there are exceptions. Given that it is from AOPA, I think it is worth noting that the aphorism (as stated from time to time by general aviation pilots) that "the most dangerous part of flying is driving to the airport" is statistically false for general aviation itself (it may well be true for airline flight in many parts of the world.)
Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash
#249This is a Baha'i Prayer I like to say for people who pass on to the next life Its hard to describe how I feel about it, its just so deep and profound... Consciousness itself, as apart from the behavior and computation that goes on in the brain, is a mystery of neuroscience. So maybe somehow it persists after we die? NDEs kinda shed light on that RIP up in the stars man https://www.bahaiprayers.io/prayer?id=204020
that can only be true if our consciousness does indeed survive. because if we are not conscious of who we are and what we learned during our life on earth then what would be the point of reflecting and meeting others there?
Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe the wing was in a stall in this situation. There would have been an abundance of airspeed over the wings. While performing a Split S the issue is that you are pulling too many G's and you and the sooner you level out the more you are pulling.
Not a stall but it might've been loss of control due to aerodynamic forces and effects. There's two that come to mind when talking about leaving a loop too fast like what seems to be the case here. There's control lockup, where the aircraft is flying so fast that the mass flow of air over the control surfaces is so high that the controls "lock in place" or "get stiff", meaning the force you can apply to your rudder s…