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The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

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Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#161

Post by stale2002 »

anal_reactor wrote: post #115
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author bemoans that any org that is not sufficiently pro-weird-nerd becomes anti-weird-nerd, and in conjunction with this comment which laments the experience of working under one alongside my own experiences of similar, I think it's worth remarking that many Weird Nerds not only do not foster social skills of any sort, but in fact view this as a badge of honor, as "proof" of their weirdness, and just, I'm over t…

> but seriously. You need to be able to hold a conversation. You need to be able to talk productively with your fellow people, including difficult conversations. You need to open to negative feedback, to be able to take criticism or contrary viewpoints without turning into a puddle of some combination of depression/rage/self-hatred, or people are just not going to get on with you. You implying that non-nerds have any…

> You implying that non-nerds have any of these traits

The thesis of the initial discussion is that it is unfair to hold "weird nerds" to certain standards.

The person you are responding to is claiming that actually some of these standards are important.

Your response to that of claiming that the standards are important is to say that actually normal people don't pass those standards either.

This doesn't refute the argument that the standards are important, but would actually agree with them that actually yes it is totally fine to hold people to important standards, weird nerd or not. (And in fact, you think the weird nerds are even better are following the standards! So what is the issue of holding them to those standards then?)

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#162

Post by seanmcdirmid »

sneed_chucker wrote: post #67
walt_grata wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I duno on some of that. Until I was about 39 I was a "weird nerd" and then my wife (Dr of special education) finally convinced me to talk to a Dr and get get tested for autism. Turns out I'm ASD 1, would have been Asperger's in the past. Autism has a very wide range of ways it shows itself.

Well, to me your comment also speaks to the increasing degree to which we medicalize personality traits. I'm sure your diagnosis is legitimate, but also I'm inferring from your comment that you are married and gainfully employed; so it sounds like you're able to build and maintain relationships, as well hold conversations with strangers or non-close acquaintances when necessary. In years past would any professional h…

Human brains are complicated. Many psychological disorders we have little hard science to understand them with. That doesn’t mean they don’t exist, and much more importantly, that a diagnosis is useful in improving someone’s situation.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#163

Post by myself248 »

I wish I had a source for it right now, but years ago I heard an anecdoate that Bell Labs had essentially dorms/hotels for scientists, where things like cooking and laundry were taken care of, so they could focus on their research.

This had the effect of embracing those people who hadn't necessarily figured out how to be independent adults. As long as they were lucky enough to be identified and brilliant enough to be hired, they could flourish at the Labs.

I'd love to know if other settings have made similar accommodations, and to what effect.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#164

Post by _yb2s »

andoando wrote: post #134
_yb2s wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds to me like you probably are introverted, but might not be familiar with exactly what that means, or how neurodivergent is really is from much more common extroverted people. Most extroverts aren't ruthless machivellian self interested people like you are worrying I am claiming, but they are focused primarily on fitting in and being accepted by others- and do choose their activities and behaviors mostly base…

I hate this extrovert vs introvert thing too. People don't fit simiply into these buckets.

It's not a bucket you fit people into, it is one aspect of a persons personality, out of an almost infinite number, and is also a continuum.

The idea originally comes from Carl Jung, and his point in coming up with it was for people that personally identify themselves as fitting into a particular bucket, to realize this, and be able to consciously explore the part of yourself that doesn't fit into it, that you might have ignored or rejected in the past.

For example, if you see yourself as an introverted person, and dislike extroverted qualities in others, it can be useful, for personal growth, to explore and accept your own extroverted qualities as well. I would argue that is nearly the opposite of "simply fitting people into buckets" - it is a tool that gives a perspective to do the opposite of that. To understand the complexity and diversity of yourself, and of others.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#165

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

programjames wrote: post #132
doug_durham wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The intent is to de-stigmatize the labels. I consider myself a "weird nerd". I find the use of the label affirming. Perhaps ASD or other symptom descriptive way to describing things would be more "correct". However "weird nerd" is what the other parts of society use to describe these terms. Using the term to describe the positive aspects of these symptoms helps to take the sting out.

I think "genius" fits the author's meaning and connotation much better than "weird nerd". If the author wants to fight for genius rights, why start from a position of weakness?

Do you think you're setting people up for social success by giving them a reason to say:

> I'm a genius and I'd like you to change your behavior to accommodate my needs.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#166

Post by detourdog »

kristjansson wrote: post #57
makeitdouble wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The line you draw between "weirdness" and "neurodivergence" is interesting. Would neurodivergence have to be native (so, not grown "naturally") and at which point does weirdness fit on the spectrum ? Recently I think people are more receptive to lower degrees of neurodivergence. I see it the same way people understand that you have a gradation between having difficulties climbing stairs and not being able to walk. We…

At some point the question is “why?”. We can keep atomizing human variability into smaller, more graduated buckets of neurodivergence, but what’s the point, esp. for those that don’t really suffer negative impacts, and for which there isn’t really any remedy besides acceptance?

My guess is to try to improve human relationships. Trying to understand why someone has consistent surprising/inappropriate reactions might help. The flip side is someone who consistently seems to be surprised by how people are reacting to them and wants better connections.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#167

Post by eikenberry »

fragmede wrote: post #138
akozak wrote: post #104

I have a lot of experience working with the weird nerd archetype and watching them navigate large orgs. First it's absolutely true that orgs that purport to support weird nerds will revert back to rewarding politicians. I've seen it happen, and typically has to do with who is doling out money. However, in my experience the vast majority of brilliant nerds way overextend themselves, and are much too confident outside…

> assuming emotional intelligence isn't an innate skill it's a skill like any other, so if you put in dedication and practice, you can get better at it, just like practicing leetcode. whether or not an individual wants to do so is on them.

And like any other skill some people are more gifted in learning that skill than others. Anyone can learn to paint, but not everyone is going to be a Monet or a Rembrandt.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#168

Post by sneed_chucker »

tomrod wrote: post #154
sneed_chucker wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, to me your comment also speaks to the increasing degree to which we medicalize personality traits. I'm sure your diagnosis is legitimate, but also I'm inferring from your comment that you are married and gainfully employed; so it sounds like you're able to build and maintain relationships, as well hold conversations with strangers or non-close acquaintances when necessary. In years past would any professional h…

Are you aware that ASD isn't purely psychosocial?

Yes I'm aware that it's understood to be neurological condition.

But it's diagnosed based on behavioral observations, it's not like people get diagnosed with ASD based on brain scans like you would for MS or parkinsons.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#169

Post by nurple »

jchw wrote: post #90

> Any system that is not explicitly pro-Weird Nerd will turn anti-Weird Nerd pretty quickly. Wow. Sure as hell feels that way. See, I actually feel like this is happening across the Internet, too, in a different way. Firstly, I'd consider myself some sort of "Weird Nerd" but certainly not a genius or even especially intelligent; I would be willing to indulge in the idea that my contingent and I have some unusual qual…

Agreed. Having been part of the internet since its genesis, every day I mourn the loss of the critical mass of the weird and curious that pervaded it. I absolutely abhor the exploiters that came from behind and effected a nerd diaspora to simply transformed it into the same manipulative, self-congratulating trash hole that is so widely lauded as "normal".

I lost my job in a layoff over 6 months ago and really struggled to find something in the state that tech has been in since zirp and section 174 went away.

If there's any positive I see from all of this is that there are a lot of weird nerds out there feeling unmoored, unmotivated, and are looking for somewhere to fit in and do the greatest work of their career. I think that someone(s) with resources who creates such a nerd commune will create something truly special, something that transcends the "normal", giving these misfits something that they fully own, drive, but still share with the same world that looks down on them as "divergent". I have never met a more passionate or selfless group of people.

I think Steve Jobs was an example of this type of nerd whisperer. He knew what drove the people that actually create things in this world, and he gave them a powerful outlet to show their value. I think he deeply felt and meant what they were selling at the time: "the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do".

https://invidious.privacydev.net/watch?v=VCz_SiPD_X0

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#170

Post by coffeebeqn »

WereAllMadHere wrote: post #160
faeriechangling wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really accept the validity of people who are generally more functional and conventionally successful than average being called "disordered" in the first place. It seems like a weird arbitrary insistence of the medical system to simply pathologize anybody who fits into a certain box.

What about someone who needs a wheelchair but is conveniently successful?

If they seemingly successfully have walked around their entire lives - sure. But this seems like a off analogy
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