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The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

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Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#121
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Earning" doesn't necessarily come with a truly elite status job, because you're not relying on a salary to live. Having to live off a salary is lower status.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

The comment above mine said "Academia pays absolutely terribly for an elite job". But earning doesn't really come into a truly elite (status-wise) job, because the person doing it doesn't need to earn to live.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#122
post #101
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caring about something deeply above external motivations, especially external validation is by itself neurodivergent. At the very least, you have to be highly introverted, which is rare.

I'm understanding your statement to mean that caring about something because of itself, without external motivation (like validation or money), is neurodivergent. So neurotypical would be to only care about something if you profit from you caring about it? Is that reading correct? If so, I have to disagree vehemently. That is not my experience at all and feels extremely homo economicus and - to be honest - depressing…

It sounds to me like you probably are introverted, but might not be familiar with exactly what that means, or how neurodivergent is really is from much more common extroverted people.

Most extroverts aren't ruthless machivellian self interested people like you are worrying I am claiming, but they are focused primarily on fitting in and being accepted by others- and do choose their activities and behaviors mostly based on that. Their interests are genuine, but the biggest factor in them is usually who it connects them with, and how it makes them appear to others. What do your hobbies, car, clothing, etc. say about you and how will that affect how others see and treat you?

Introverts are, as the name implies, more inwardly focused- and although they enjoy social connection and acceptance also, it can be exhausting and therefore less motivating, and generally takes a back seat to more inwardly generated concerns. It is often wrongly confused with being socially awkward or shy, which isn't the same at all.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#123
Shades of Graeber in this essay:

>There was a time when academia was society’s refuge for the eccentric, brilliant, and impractical. No longer. It is now the domain of professional self-marketers. As for the eccentric, brilliant, and impractical: it would seem society now has no place for them at all.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7004628-there-was-a-time-wh...

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many weird nerds are on the spectrum and require very good people managers above them to mitigate their quirks, and should never go into people management themselves. The industry has really changed though. It is much easier to hire social well adapted people who can code at all than to hire a bunch of people with social problems who can code really good. The former is scalable at least, the latter breaks down as no…

Any non-trivial engineering or research is a team effort. It's good to have a mix of perspectives and temperaments in a team to keep poeple creative and honest. But the team ultimately has to cohere in order to deliver. That's really the core job of a manager: to create an environment where people can work together meaningfully and direct it to productive ends.

> Any non-trivial engineering or research is a team effort

There's plenty of counterexamples in the software space, to the point where most great software was originally written by a single person - C, Unix, Linux, Git, TeX, Python, Ruby, Perl, SQLite, QEMU...

Most of these now have huge teams maintaining them of course, but the initial research and engineering that was needed to come up with the golden egg is usually a one man show. C designed by committee is COBOL.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#125
> In 2011, the average age at which a biomedical scientist gets their first R01 grant to establish their independent career as a PI is 42

This is ridiculous! The best researchers won't be much better at 45 than 25, so it's just wasting 20 years getting "experience" and moving up the ladder. But by nature of getting that experience, they're going to give up on actual innovation.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#126

There's definitely been a move to demand individuals be good at everything... old stereotypes of the nerd brought a lot of negatives, but they were also apologetic, acknowledging the trade off, that paying attention deeply to one thing does lead to being worse at other things. The exact stereotype differed by domain... the performer who is a diva, the self destructive author, the manic artist... each with a hint of n…

The line you draw between "weirdness" and "neurodivergence" is interesting. Would neurodivergence have to be native (so, not grown "naturally") and at which point does weirdness fit on the spectrum ? Recently I think people are more receptive to lower degrees of neurodivergence. I see it the same way people understand that you have a gradation between having difficulties climbing stairs and not being able to walk. We…

The phrase has sounded weird to me for some time but here it strikes me as especially so: "the spectrum"

Just one spectrum, 2 dimensions? Is that all we get? It's a linguistic short-cut, I get that, but I wonder how useful it is, how much nuance it conceals.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many weird nerds are on the spectrum and require very good people managers above them to mitigate their quirks, and should never go into people management themselves. The industry has really changed though. It is much easier to hire social well adapted people who can code at all than to hire a bunch of people with social problems who can code really good. The former is scalable at least, the latter breaks down as no…

Any non-trivial engineering or research is a team effort. It's good to have a mix of perspectives and temperaments in a team to keep poeple creative and honest. But the team ultimately has to cohere in order to deliver. That's really the core job of a manager: to create an environment where people can work together meaningfully and direct it to productive ends.

This isn’t true, most of the best software is written by individuals. Even inside large tech companies, it still happens that major value is created by one person.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#128
Not sure if I count as a 'weird nerd' or not but if there's been one constant in my life, it's the theme of "you're amazing at a whole range of things, but here's some things you're not amazing at, could you maybe just try being a version of yourself with all of your strengths and none of your inconvenient shortcomings?" and tbh it's fucking infuriating.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a guess here - but to make diagnosed people feel more included and part of a group, the more people get diagnosed even if it's 0.01%, the more safe the others feel because they're not alone, it stops being a stigma

This is not my experience at all. Being diagnosed directly led to immense stigma over and over. You are literally giving people the language they need to stereotype you and put you into a bucket by getting diagnosed and telling people your diagnosis. Stigma is literally an iatrogenic consequence of diagnosis itself, never mind diagnosis stopping stigma! I hear "Autistic" thrown around as an insult maybe 10x more than…

I dont even like it on a personal level. People use these terms to describe themselves in very narrow buckets and stereotypes, and there is no logic to that at all. I saw a post on /r/ADHD for example thst went something like "Does anyone else svoid eye contact during sex" and everyones like "omg thats me too!". I mean...need I say more?

I get how it might be fulfilling to have a label to explain away all your behaviors but it makes no sense to do so and I find it extremely self-limiting

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#130

I didn't fully understand what the author meant by "Weird Nerd", and this bit was the key for me: > Weird Nerds (I called them autistics, but people really hated that) And I totally get why they're trying to come up with a word that markets better, and yes many people react negatively to "autist" or calling someone "on the spectrum". At the same time, man prominent people are making public their diagnostics and asser…

I react negatively to "autist" because it's not a good description. "ist" is usually used for something people do, or more to the point something they choose to do, see cyclist, artist, etc. Also, "on the spectrum" is used today much like "depression" was used in the '90s. It's a catch all excuse used at the expense of people actually suffering the disorder. Much like sometimes you are just sad, I would wager many pe…

This spectrum they speak of, are there labels for its extremes? Other spectra have things like hot/cold, large/small, etc.

Is it the autistic/not-autistic spectrum? Because if so, we're all on it.

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