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The Era of the Autodidact Is Here (2018)

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Re: The Era of the Autodidact Is Here (2018)

#41

Post by alfiedotwtf »

badwolf wrote: post #32
rayxi271828 wrote: post #2

On one hand, there's this. On the other hand, with the toughening of the job market, companies are selecting by degrees and pedigrees more than ever. The last company I worked for is currently doing this exactly, only looking at applications from people graduating from select universities. So far it's working for them. As the job market gets worse, I think this trend of stronger emphasis on degrees and pedigrees will…

As someone in the job market right now, with 15+ years experience but no degree... This is an unfortunately very visible trend. It's Especially boggling to see a job posting wanting 10+ years of experience but still demanding you provide your GPA.

It’s been 20 years since I’ve ever been asked for proof of my degree, and also 20 years since it has ever come up during an interview.

I think university only counts when you’re freshly graduated because you don’t have a lot to work with given the pool of candidates… but once you instead require X years of experience then education does not matter - but if it ever did, nope it out of the interview because they sound like amateurs.

Re: The Era of the Autodidact Is Here (2018)

#42

Post by alfiedotwtf »

Aurornis wrote: post #9
supportengineer wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow, late stage capitalism seems to bring us to this winner-take-all environment. We are being separated into rich and poor and forced farther and farther apart. In large part for the reasons you stated, I'm sending one kid to a $100k per year private university instead of the $7k per year state school. I was helping my kid try to apply for summer jobs. It involved a lot of 2FA apps and QR codes, which needed to…

> Why do we tolerate this world where the bar is so high and getting higher all the time? There isn’t a single “bar”. The company the parent commenter was talking about was a single company at a single point in the job market using a single heuristic. These anecdotes are anecdotes, not representative of the entire industry. The pointy end of the job market has always been selective. There have been companies that sel…

It’s interesting because I’ve seen the direct opposite. Also, it’s been at least 15 years since I’ve ever been asked for my references… but mine have never been called regardless

Re: The Era of the Autodidact Is Here (2018)

#43

Post by TheRoque »

I have been trying to be an aUtoDidAct for the last 5 years and I seriously failed. My technical skills are stagnating. My social skills deteriorated. My network is abysmal. The value of working in team with others, and being able to talk to experts is really invaluable when it comes to learning. Some stuff can't be found in books nor on internet, and you can't learn it by yourself unless you spend 10 years on the topic.

So, for me at least, I think being an autodidact is not the best option when it comes to learning.

I think some people are really creative and curious, and benefit from having more freedom, but most people need guidance. We shouldn't push the message than anyone can learn anything by himself, even though I wish it were true.

Re: The Era of the Autodidact Is Here (2018)

#44

Post by ghaff »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #35
ghaff wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty skeptical of the networking with rich people theory. Of course, it happens. But I'm not sure it's a rationale, by itself, to go to Harvard if you can. While I've done business with various people I know in school I can't point to any clear examples where some opportunity came along because of school connections. Professional connections, yes, in pretty much every case. But very little to do with school.

I got invited to a startup that had a good exit through school connections. I left a good bit before the exit because my school chum became a megalomaniac that was impossible to work with, but I can at least give you n=1.

Oh. Totally happens--probably especially at small companies/startups. I'm just saying it probably isn't a great bet if that's your main reason for going to the school.

Re: The Era of the Autodidact Is Here (2018)

#45

Post by cjbgkagh »

rayxi271828 wrote: post #2

On one hand, there's this. On the other hand, with the toughening of the job market, companies are selecting by degrees and pedigrees more than ever. The last company I worked for is currently doing this exactly, only looking at applications from people graduating from select universities. So far it's working for them. As the job market gets worse, I think this trend of stronger emphasis on degrees and pedigrees will…

There is a delay in the perceived value of the job as well as a delay in acquisition of a degree/pedigree so the calculus must take into account the expected job value at the end of the degree.

In my view, given that the tech job value is in decline, and will continue this decline for the foreseeable future, the net present value of the job is much lower that the perceived value. Prospective students should take this into account, especially the middling ones.

When I decided to go to university in 2001 it was after the dot-com crash and classes were very small. We were told that all programming jobs in the future will be done by Indians and there was not future for us in this feild. I took the bet that they were wrong and did quite well out of. But I was also a rather gifted student with a natural affinity to programming so I figured it was something I wanted to do even if it turned out that I was wrong.

My prediction now is that this downturn in tech prospects is not a temporary setback as seen in previous downturns and is more structural and permanent. The pie is not growing fast enough to turn efficiencies into consumer surplus and instead efficiencies are driving down wages at a time where government policies are exasperating income inequality in an effort to chase GDP. I don't know how someone starting today would escape the intentional demand destruction / crushing of the middle class. Maybe there is some margin left in the high pedigree -> good job strategy but I am not confident in it.

Since I think the expected payoff of high pedigree degrees are worth less than what other people think a more economically defensive strategy of not taking on large amounts of debt and self teaching as much as possible would be the way to go even if historically that has not been true.

Re: The Era of the Autodidact Is Here (2018)

#46

Post by Aurornis »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #22
Aurornis wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So far it's working for them. As the job market gets worse, I think this trend of stronger emphasis on degrees and pedigrees will only get stronger. In retrospect, some of the worst advice I got from the internet and even the real world was that college was overrated. I did well in college, went above and beyond in my studies, and learned a lot. But I did not go to the most prestigious university I could have atten…

Pro tip, people hate ivy droppers. The only people who will respond well are other people who went to the same ivy as you. The value of an Ivy Education is that you become friends with people who have rich parents, and those people bring you into the stuff they start because they have the capital to do whatever they want.

> The only people who will respond well are other people who went to the same ivy as you.

Not my experience at all. I’ve been at multiple companies where the top management came from different Ivies (or similarly prestigious universities).

They all promoted and hired people from other prestigious universities.

I have never actually seen this proverbial situation where an entire company clique is all from one, single university except at very, very small startups.

At big companies, it’s less about the exact uni and more about where it falls in the rankings. Anything top-10 is basically interchangeable.

Re: The Era of the Autodidact Is Here (2018)

#47

Post by raverbashing »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #24

The deep irony of praising autodidacticism in lieu of getting a degree is that one has to be a world class autodidact to succeed in a Ph.D program and that a university is stuffed to the brim with resources to support that autodidacticism: libraries, lab facilities, experts, etc. for both graduate and undergraduate studies. And not in just in one field, but dozens and dozens of fields. A real autodidact would be in s…

Yes

Except for the @ss-kissing, the unnaturally inflexible academic environment, the pressure for publishing, etc

Then academia becomes hell

Re: The Era of the Autodidact Is Here (2018)

#48

Post by cjbgkagh »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #41
badwolf wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone in the job market right now, with 15+ years experience but no degree... This is an unfortunately very visible trend. It's Especially boggling to see a job posting wanting 10+ years of experience but still demanding you provide your GPA.

It’s been 20 years since I’ve ever been asked for proof of my degree, and also 20 years since it has ever come up during an interview. I think university only counts when you’re freshly graduated because you don’t have a lot to work with given the pool of candidates… but once you instead require X years of experience then education does not matter - but if it ever did, nope it out of the interview because they sound…

I was asked not just for my GPA but the specific grades for all of my university courses >10 years prior even though I had worked in FANG for many years. The recruiter apologized for it and said the directive came from HR.

Re: The Era of the Autodidact Is Here (2018)

#49

Post by p1esk »

ipython wrote: post #37
p1esk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you do all that why not just enroll and get a degree while you’re at it?

My guess is the $$$$ cost?

Sure, but you’re getting something that will help you get a good job in the future, so it seems like a good investment.

Re: The Era of the Autodidact Is Here (2018)

#50

Post by CuriouslyC »

Aurornis wrote: post #46
CuriouslyC wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pro tip, people hate ivy droppers. The only people who will respond well are other people who went to the same ivy as you. The value of an Ivy Education is that you become friends with people who have rich parents, and those people bring you into the stuff they start because they have the capital to do whatever they want.

> The only people who will respond well are other people who went to the same ivy as you. Not my experience at all. I’ve been at multiple companies where the top management came from different Ivies (or similarly prestigious universities). They all promoted and hired people from other prestigious universities. I have never actually seen this proverbial situation where an entire company clique is all from one, single…

Being at an Ivy doesn't buy you much 10+ years into your career as an ordinary applicant in most industries, a lot of people hardly make it that far down a resume before tossing it. Getting your first job out of college (or getting recruited while in college) and knowing people from an Ivy who are 10+ years into their career and being able to skip the applicant pile is very different.
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