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SVG Is The Future Of Application Development

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Re: SVG Is The Future Of Application Development

#11

Check out the capabilities of the specification. http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/ It appears I just discovered a valuable, free, resource with untapped potential. Happy Hacking!

SVG itself has no good implementations. Does SVG mobile?

Writing a specification with awesome capabilities is a lot easier than writing the software.

Re: SVG Is The Future Of Application Development

#12
post #10
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more pressing problem with SVG is that it is like every other W3C standard: bloated, unwieldy, and obfuscated. Not to mention that SVG does not have all the capabilities of PS. PS is a complete turing complete language specialized for drawing vector graphics. SVG is more restricted and certainly slower to work with, not as well supported, and very very verbose.

> [...] and very very verbose it's possible to write compact SVG. For example, it has a simple and very compact sub-language for specifying paths (with one-letter commands): http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/paths.html#PathDataBNF What do you mean by 'not as well supported'? SVG is supported by Firefox, Opera and Webkit (Safari / Chrome). I'm not aware of any Browser that supports Postscript. As for turing complete: SVG is fu…

Some parts of SVG are supported by those browsers; other parts aren't. Generally the implementations are pretty slow and, last I checked, unstable too.

Re: SVG Is The Future Of Application Development

#13
post #10
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more pressing problem with SVG is that it is like every other W3C standard: bloated, unwieldy, and obfuscated. Not to mention that SVG does not have all the capabilities of PS. PS is a complete turing complete language specialized for drawing vector graphics. SVG is more restricted and certainly slower to work with, not as well supported, and very very verbose.

> [...] and very very verbose it's possible to write compact SVG. For example, it has a simple and very compact sub-language for specifying paths (with one-letter commands): http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/paths.html#PathDataBNF What do you mean by 'not as well supported'? SVG is supported by Firefox, Opera and Webkit (Safari / Chrome). I'm not aware of any Browser that supports Postscript. As for turing complete: SVG is fu…

I've tried using it, and at some points it starts to break down. For example, if I want to change just one point on a path, I have to parse through the entire string instead of just setting a property to a value.

Re: SVG Is The Future Of Application Development

#14
I don't follow any line of thinking that presumes widespread adoption of anything on the basis of HTML/CSS/JS being inconvenient or impure. As if that has ever stopped us. Time has shown that the collective energy of a million developers butting their heads up against those limitations is enough to keep things moving forward an inch at a time. The web is a messy and inconsistent place and will undoubtedly remain so for a long time to come.

As for Silverlight and AIR, well, they might taste like pumpkin pie, but I wouldn't know, etc.

( p.s. for anybody using WebKit nightlies: http://webkit.org/blog-files/animation-demo.svg )

Re: SVG Is The Future Of Application Development

#15

Considering the standard has been in development ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svg ) since 1999 (10 years ??) this is a sad state... the future of app development? The article thankfully mentions IE exactly once. Microsoft does not officially support SVG, you need a plugin. Even Chrome does not support the SVG 1.1 standard fully, as per the wikipedia article. Browsers need a standard, natively supported graphics lib…

The raphael library he writes about looks interesting, it uses vml for internet explorer and svg elsewhere.

I had never heard about vml. According to wikipedia it is used by google maps as a replacement for svg in ie. That surprised me too: svg is actually being used by a very useful site.

Re: SVG Is The Future Of Application Development

#16
post #11

Check out the capabilities of the specification. http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/ It appears I just discovered a valuable, free, resource with untapped potential. Happy Hacking!

SVG itself has no good implementations. Does SVG mobile? Writing a specification with awesome capabilities is a lot easier than writing the software.

http://code.google.com/p/svgfig/

I just found this one.

Cheers!

Re: SVG Is The Future Of Application Development

#17
post #10
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more pressing problem with SVG is that it is like every other W3C standard: bloated, unwieldy, and obfuscated. Not to mention that SVG does not have all the capabilities of PS. PS is a complete turing complete language specialized for drawing vector graphics. SVG is more restricted and certainly slower to work with, not as well supported, and very very verbose.

> [...] and very very verbose it's possible to write compact SVG. For example, it has a simple and very compact sub-language for specifying paths (with one-letter commands): http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/paths.html#PathDataBNF What do you mean by 'not as well supported'? SVG is supported by Firefox, Opera and Webkit (Safari / Chrome). I'm not aware of any Browser that supports Postscript. As for turing complete: SVG is fu…

Every linux box in existence supports PS, very well. So does every PDF reader. That covers over 80% of all computers. Extending this support could be done through a plugin. Compare this to the fact that IE does not support SVG and PS is a far better standard to work with in terms of vector drawing.

As to the turing completeness of SVG, how efficiently can JS transform vectors in comparison to PS. Not very fast.

Also, nobody wants to draw just paths.

Re: SVG Is The Future Of Application Development

#18
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] and very very verbose it's possible to write compact SVG. For example, it has a simple and very compact sub-language for specifying paths (with one-letter commands): http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/paths.html#PathDataBNF What do you mean by 'not as well supported'? SVG is supported by Firefox, Opera and Webkit (Safari / Chrome). I'm not aware of any Browser that supports Postscript. As for turing complete: SVG is fu…

Every linux box in existence supports PS, very well. So does every PDF reader. That covers over 80% of all computers. Extending this support could be done through a plugin. Compare this to the fact that IE does not support SVG and PS is a far better standard to work with in terms of vector drawing. As to the turing completeness of SVG, how efficiently can JS transform vectors in comparison to PS. Not very fast. Also,…

"So does every PDF reader."

I don't think every PDF reader supports PostScript very well. Is that what you meant to say?

Re: SVG Is The Future Of Application Development

#19
post #6
post #2

worthwhile comment by jonathansnook: "The problem with the current state of HTML is that it’s elements for interactivity are quite limited without JavaScript. We have a limited set of form elements and then we fall back to the page request/response of old. This is a problem that SVG does not solve. Sure, it might make certain presentation elements easier to create but that’s more of a CSS issue than an HTML issue. Th…

A more pressing problem with SVG is that it is like every other W3C standard: bloated, unwieldy, and obfuscated. Not to mention that SVG does not have all the capabilities of PS. PS is a complete turing complete language specialized for drawing vector graphics. SVG is more restricted and certainly slower to work with, not as well supported, and very very verbose.

Yes, that's true. Did you know SVG 1.2 has sockets? http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-SVG12-20041027/api.html#socket
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