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Tokyo's Government Is Building Its Own Dating App to Combat Falling Birthrates

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Re: Tokyo's Government Is Building Its Own Dating App to Combat Falling Birthrates

#61
post #4

Why would anyone want to have kids today? Most couples in the western world can barely support themselves while getting into home ownership, let alone trying to support multiple kids and put them through college while saving for retirement. The amount of capacity left in life for good child rearing is minimal. Add to that the fact that it's looking increasingly unlikely that there'll be jobs for their children anyway…

The world has never been safer and humanity has never been better equipped to support the survival of a child than now. I don't have an explanation for the phenomenon, but it's certainly not the horror reasons you mention.

Re: Tokyo's Government Is Building Its Own Dating App to Combat Falling Birthrates

#62

Give people 6 hour workday with mandatory no-overtime and the problem will fix itself. It’s not rocket science.

In Japan? If you did that, the economy would immediately fall over. I don't think you're very well informed on this subject matter.

> I don't think you're very well informed on this subject matter.

I am, son. I studied Japanese language and culture and considered working there. I know that my suggestion is a fat chance but having people work less and be less obsessed with work is the only way.

Re: Tokyo's Government Is Building Its Own Dating App to Combat Falling Birthrates

#63
post #9
post #4

Why would anyone want to have kids today? Most couples in the western world can barely support themselves while getting into home ownership, let alone trying to support multiple kids and put them through college while saving for retirement. The amount of capacity left in life for good child rearing is minimal. Add to that the fact that it's looking increasingly unlikely that there'll be jobs for their children anyway…

People are wealthier and healthier today than almost any other point in history. Better times than now are a blip in the grand scheme of things. We have a huge number of social ills that contribute towards peoples reasons for not wanting children, but wealth and physical health are not among them.

IMO, your generalizations are not fair. There is an inverse relationship between wealth and fertility, globally. https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2016/december/link... The article describes some possible reasons.

And how are we healthier? 42% of adults are obese, compared to 12% fifty years ago.

Re: Tokyo's Government Is Building Its Own Dating App to Combat Falling Birthrates

#64
post #61
post #4

Why would anyone want to have kids today? Most couples in the western world can barely support themselves while getting into home ownership, let alone trying to support multiple kids and put them through college while saving for retirement. The amount of capacity left in life for good child rearing is minimal. Add to that the fact that it's looking increasingly unlikely that there'll be jobs for their children anyway…

The world has never been safer and humanity has never been better equipped to support the survival of a child than now. I don't have an explanation for the phenomenon, but it's certainly not the horror reasons you mention.

Wealth and fertility have an inverse relationship. This is true worldwide, and through recent history (~50 years). Just one of many reasons, women are going to college and having careers at historical highs. And the same women are punished for having kids.

"This decreasing relationship between fertility and income is well known to economists and demographers alike. In addition, it holds true over time: Rich countries, such as the U.S., have experienced a remarkable decline in their fertility rate as they became rich. Also, the relationship holds at the individual level, as rich families tend to have fewer children than poor families." from: https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2016/december/link...

Re: Tokyo's Government Is Building Its Own Dating App to Combat Falling Birthrates

#65
post #63
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are wealthier and healthier today than almost any other point in history. Better times than now are a blip in the grand scheme of things. We have a huge number of social ills that contribute towards peoples reasons for not wanting children, but wealth and physical health are not among them.

IMO, your generalizations are not fair. There is an inverse relationship between wealth and fertility, globally. https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2016/december/link... The article describes some possible reasons. And how are we healthier? 42% of adults are obese, compared to 12% fifty years ago.

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Re: Tokyo's Government Is Building Its Own Dating App to Combat Falling Birthrates

#66
post #9
post #4

Why would anyone want to have kids today? Most couples in the western world can barely support themselves while getting into home ownership, let alone trying to support multiple kids and put them through college while saving for retirement. The amount of capacity left in life for good child rearing is minimal. Add to that the fact that it's looking increasingly unlikely that there'll be jobs for their children anyway…

People are wealthier and healthier today than almost any other point in history. Better times than now are a blip in the grand scheme of things. We have a huge number of social ills that contribute towards peoples reasons for not wanting children, but wealth and physical health are not among them.

I like the analogy with the USAF and fighter jets. Every generation of fighter jet is more capable than the one before but also much more expensive per plane to purchase and operate, so they get fewer of them each time.

Re: Tokyo's Government Is Building Its Own Dating App to Combat Falling Birthrates

#67

At which point does it make sense for the Japanese government to just start a baby production facility? Pay women to be artificially inseminated for the purpose of human generation. Feasible, yes, ethical and moral, questionable, but ..it might be scalable.

You didn't even need the women. Artificial wombs exist.

That's the plot of Brave New World right?

Re: Tokyo's Government Is Building Its Own Dating App to Combat Falling Birthrates

#68
post #61
post #4

Why would anyone want to have kids today? Most couples in the western world can barely support themselves while getting into home ownership, let alone trying to support multiple kids and put them through college while saving for retirement. The amount of capacity left in life for good child rearing is minimal. Add to that the fact that it's looking increasingly unlikely that there'll be jobs for their children anyway…

The world has never been safer and humanity has never been better equipped to support the survival of a child than now. I don't have an explanation for the phenomenon, but it's certainly not the horror reasons you mention.

I think it's just as simple as when you're already poor, having children doesn't fundamentally change things. Children don't actually cost that much when you have nothing much to give them anyway, and quickly turn into free labour if anything. If you're very lucky, they can get a job in the city/abroad and send money home. But for generations, having children and having them continue much the same, generation after generation, is just how is always been. It's often also required by religions, because religions that encourage children grow, and so it's self-reinforcing.

The problem is in modern "wealthy" society, everyone is allowed to work (to be clear I'm not saying that's not a problem in itself), and the Red Queen effect means that within a couple of generations¹, most couples are both in full-time work just to afford rent and the "basics" of a modern lifestyle. Children are now a huge opportunity cost, one that might cost you your home. Then, because the couple would have prospects to offer the child, the common human instinct is to invest everything in them or their future, spurred on by the social expectations and the Childhood Industrial Complex. Vitamins and private healthcare into expensive high chairs, a "safe" car and a top-line car seat, toys, computers, clothes, experiences, holidays, housing near good schools, tutoring, a degree etc. Plus the fairly modern sentiment that you should spend as much time as possible with the child, which may inhibit large families even for those who can financially afford them. The expectations around what a "minimally non-negligent parent" must provide children are so high that many people think "I quite literally cannot be sure to provide that, so I should not have children". Of course in the background, "don't have children if you can't afford them" has been the tabloid "anti-scrounger" slogan for at least a generation now, and religious adherence is way down in wealthy societies.

It's a hell of a catch, as Heller would say. Be poor and offer your children almost nothing material in life, and so have them, or be rich and be unable to offer your children far more in an absolute sense than the poor person could, but still far below what you would want to, and so forgo them.

¹ After a couple of generations of taking up the slack in the middle classes (e.g. go-getter Yuppies giving their children unthinkably luxurious childhoods with their new dual incomes, plus the productivity revolution initially paying out as worker wages), the Millennial generation was the first to really notice en masse that they really could not provide to their children what their parents provided to them. Certainly I can't give my children what my parents gave me, and I'm in roughly the same income decile.

Re: Tokyo's Government Is Building Its Own Dating App to Combat Falling Birthrates

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add to that our increasingly lonely lives and fraying communities mean much less of a support network. Parenting is also exhausting now that “go outside and play, come back for dinner” is impractical (for various reasons good or bad).

> “go outside and play, come back for dinner” why is this impractical? EDIT: I'm getting downvoted but I am seriously not sure. I don't have kids right now but its part of how I intend to raise them when I get them.

Drivers will kill them, mostly. Also meddling curtain twitchers reporting you to police and the lack of other kids near by.

Re: Tokyo's Government Is Building Its Own Dating App to Combat Falling Birthrates

#70
post #17
post #4

Why would anyone want to have kids today? Most couples in the western world can barely support themselves while getting into home ownership, let alone trying to support multiple kids and put them through college while saving for retirement. The amount of capacity left in life for good child rearing is minimal. Add to that the fact that it's looking increasingly unlikely that there'll be jobs for their children anyway…

> previous generations are leaving them a burning hellscape full of toxic forever chemicals and microplastics that the kids will need to clean up Please , folks, take a step back and realize that most of what you've read about this stuff in the pop media is based on extremely speculative data, usually from weak, observational studies, or small laboratory experiments in non-human animals. The threat to your life, indi…

On microplastics I agree, but on climate change the issue is almost reversed. We have tons of high profile research coming out all the time that even our worst case models were too optimistic and we are bound for a shitshow of unimaginable proportions. This shouldn't come as a surprise for people who know how the IPCC reports are created (sort of a least common denominator between science, politics and lobbyists). So every time they say official "worst case" model, that is the worst case that the fossil industry is willing to admit. And that is already pretty bad. What we're actually going to experience could very well amount to a civilisation-ending event. Especially if oceans keep acidifying, which is a highly overlooked doomsday gun and could not just end modern civilisation, but actually kill us and most other land based oxygen breathing creatures. We even know this has happened once already, most likely from a combination of impact events and volcanism. But today's CO2 emission rate is an order of magnitude greater than it was back then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permian%E2%80%93Triassic_extin...

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