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Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash

fox13seattle.com

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Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash

#141
post #137
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a mathematician I'm going to fall on a slide rule and poke my brain through an eye socket. Yeah doesn't work does it.

Choke on chalk, nerd! Or maybe have an aneurysm trying to remember some latex command.

Oh hell that last one got me. Now how do I do that equals with two bars and a squiggle ... ERK ... THUD.

Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash

#142
post #110
post #5

I saw the headline earlier, and my first thought was "I hope he was the pilot, because that would be a fitting way to go for a legend." Not only was he the pilot, but he was flying solo at 90 years old.

I hate this reasoning. Why is this a fitting way to die? What would be a fitting way to go for a cook or an athlete then?

> What would be a fitting way to go for a cook or an athlete then?

Whatever they liked doing? Being an astronaut at that time implied that he was an aviator. Keeping his licence to fly into the old age of 90 means he most likely loved flying. That is why it is a “fitting way to die”.

I don’t know the cook you mention. Maybe they loved cooking for loved ones. In that case a fitting way to die would be while they are doing that. But maybe it was just their profession, but what made them enjoy their life was watching musicals in the theatre. In that case a fitting way to die would be them dying after watching a great performance on their way out of the theatre.

Maybe it would help if we would contrast this with an “unfitting” way to die? Let’s take the same cook who loves musicals. If she were to try to climb her roof to fix a leak (something she never before professed to care much about) and they slip and fall off the roof. That would be an unfitting way to die.

Dying is probably painfull, scary and confusing in many cases. But the circumstances surrounding it can make it worse or better. Dying in an accident doing something you always hated is worse than dying in an accident doing something you loved.

Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash

#143
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate this reasoning. Why is this a fitting way to die? What would be a fitting way to go for a cook or an athlete then?

He went out on his own terms subject to the rules of the way he lived. No excuses. It may not have been his intent to die but he was willing to take the risk. That is the price of true agency.

When you are prepared to die in a plane crash because of your decrepitude, how much risk to others is entailed in a case like this? If the plausible answer is “not that much” I am with you. But nonagenarian self-actualization at the cost of other people’s lives and limbs is a different story.

Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash

#144
I once met Bill Anders on Orcas Island.

Years ago I was making a video about describing a stone that I found on an Orcas beach, and I was consulting with geologists and biologists. I met at a local cafe with a marine biologist to get her opinion about barnacles on the stone. As we were talking, a man at the next table mentioned that he thought the stone was possibly volcanic. He also said he had a petrologist friend I should talk to.

Nice coincidence. The guy said his name was something-something... I'm not good with names and pretty much forget them instantly.

Later, I'm with the biologist on the beach, looking at barnacles when a P-51 Mustang comes screaming overhead on a low pass over the island. I lived on Orcas and I had never seen that before.

"Oh, that's Bill Anders," said the biologist. "Remember, you met him at the Orcas Hotel cafe. He was on Apollo 8."

That made a lot of sense. The Apollo astronauts were trained field geologists!

I suspect his crash was a suicide. I come from a flying family and this is how pilots commonly fantasize about dying on their own terms.

Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash

#145
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because an unfitting way to die is to be stuffed with tubes, half conscious in a bed, shitting your pants uncontrollably. The perspective of dying lying helpless in a hospital or care house is not very appealing to people who had an active life.

Dying in a last scream of fear, angst and struggle regretting a thousand things that may have gone wrong or maybe were just your fault, without having the chance to tell your loved ones how much you love them, and being remembered not only by the incredible flights where no one had gone before, but finally and uttermost by the one that ended your life which will be replayed endlessly in the internets. Not sure what w…

We might be different types of people (your comment about regret strongly suggests we are), but I've been in some very hairy situations where I was fairly sure I was about to die traumatically and I didn't experience any of what you're suggesting. Instead it was a calm resignation or acceptance that was oddly peaceful.

Not that I don't want to live, but I don't fear death and would take the plane crash over wasting in a hospital any day. I have a DNR registered with the health service in my country to make sure that never happens.

Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash

#146
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He went out on his own terms subject to the rules of the way he lived. No excuses. It may not have been his intent to die but he was willing to take the risk. That is the price of true agency.

When you are prepared to die in a plane crash because of your decrepitude, how much risk to others is entailed in a case like this? If the plausible answer is “not that much” I am with you. But nonagenarian self-actualization at the cost of other people’s lives and limbs is a different story.

The medicals for pilots are exhaustive and frequent, so you can be assured he was probably in better health than the majority of the population.

Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash

#147
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate this reasoning. Why is this a fitting way to die? What would be a fitting way to go for a cook or an athlete then?

Most people die painful and slow deaths in a bed surrounded by people they don’t know, or most likely entirely alone. Almost nobody dies peacefully in their sleep, it’s usually some horrible disease or failing bodily function. If you’re going to die a “fitting” way, it’s going to be because you took your life passion to the extreme.

Most people die at home with family. Only certain over-medicalised countries have a preponderance of the elderly dying in hospital.

Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash

#148

All respect, this guy is was ~91. I’m uncomfortable driving with my mom. As a total layperson, what sort of tests does a person have to pass annually(?) to maintain a pilot’s license? Or is this dude just so O.G. that he was bound to go out living his dream?

I’ve seen a few people mentioning medical certifications, but nobody has mentioned that 8 years ago the FAA passed a system called BasicMed which allows pilots to continue flying without getting a medical examination as long as they meet certain conditions. The plane must not exceed 6,000 lbs and must carry less than six passengers. You also can’t have failed your last medical exam. The plane he crashed had a maximum…

Speaking with several astronauts, including Jim Lovell, Gen Tom Stafford, and TK Mattingly, my memory of those conversations is that all Apollo-era astronauts had and continue to have complete physicals from NASA every year. If that's the case he would probably have had feedback, even if the results aren't publicly available.

My memory may be faulty ... I offer this in case someone knows better.

Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash

#149

An absolute legend going out like a total badass. I know people will disagree but there is much to be said for living your life on your own terms and accepting the potential consequences without reservation. He was clearly one of those guys. He probably did not expect to die that day, but he knew he would die some day and he wasn’t going to nerf his life to buy a few more years.

My grandad at a ripe old age had a stroke and the doctors told him and the family that he won’t ever be able to walk. So he got a wheelchair and was eventually sent home to recuperate. A few days later my mom visited him and found him wheeling around in the wineyard. It seemed that my grandad (her dad), ever the engineer, pimped his ride to make it more off-road worthy and was in the process of figuring out how he ca…

Good for him! Living is not the same as existing.

Re: Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash

#150
post #110
post #5

I saw the headline earlier, and my first thought was "I hope he was the pilot, because that would be a fitting way to go for a legend." Not only was he the pilot, but he was flying solo at 90 years old.

I hate this reasoning. Why is this a fitting way to die? What would be a fitting way to go for a cook or an athlete then?

> athlete

Something like cycling down a mountain and dying from a lack of decreasing elevation.

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