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Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

idealista.com

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Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#851
post #688
post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> If only Spain could profit from helping murder brown people in 3rd world countries overseas You mean like when Spain colonized Americas?

If only. Spain declared all Native Americans Spanish subjects with equal rights in 1519. Then they proceeded to hang in public any governor who violated those rights. That's why there are 7 million 'pure blooded' (whatever that means) Native Americans in South America today and there are races like Mexican. What's more, Spain treated the 'colonies' as parts of Spain and it spent all its money developing them. From th…

I see and the tons of gold they brought back to Spain was given freely by the natives, starting with Hernán Cortés (conquered Aztecs)?

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#852
post #559

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Building a small house or cabin in the woods with the help of friends and family is an upper-middle class thing for you, really?

small cabin in the woods is whatever renting out property you own as a means of income is the upper middle class part.

I know a lot of people who inherited some small place from a relative and they rent it out to supplement their income and aren't anywhere near upper middle class. What is you definition of upper middle class?

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#853
post #800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can upgrade from trespassing to B&E by gently pushing an unlocked door to gain access so I think the term is a little loaded here, considering you are trying to claim moral equivalence between 1) entering someones home for burglary or to actively displace the residents and 2) squatting a vacant and unused building

For 2), how do you tell the difference between a building that is truly abandoned, and one that has just been bought and the new owner is in the process of arranging to repair and upgrade it? Unless you are going to setup surveillance and track every footprint, there is a LOT of process before the hammers start swinging.

I didn't say abandoned, I said vacant and unused. The biggest difference between the two examples is that one included home invasion. Not any qualification for authentic, artisanal squatting

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#854
post #678
post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building a small house or cabin in the woods with the help of friends and family is an upper-middle class thing for you, really?

That is absolutely not the same thing as GP is mentioning and you know it. >Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

All I know is a lot of people owning property here and there without being some upper middle class. You don't seem to understand that a lot of people even if they have low income have the desire and time and are hard working to slowly build something, which in 30 years of time becomes what you call a vacation home. I guess you are not used to manual work and think is impossible to do large things by yourself.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#855
post #773
post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building a small house or cabin in the woods with the help of friends and family is an upper-middle class thing for you, really?

Land is pretty expensive in Spain.

Depends where and when and how you acquire it.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#856
post #359

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It depends on the actual numbers, which usually don't support the fear coming from the media.

So let's now worry about killings, bombings, rapings, etc because there's not so many of them, right? Don't be that naïve.

In the US, people call CPS or the police on ten year olds playing unsupervised in a park or walking home from school in perfectly safe suburbs and towns because they believe the children will be kidnapped, raped and murdered. So yes, it is possible to worry too much about rape and murder as well.

See also: security theater, the TSA.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#857

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a free shelter is fundamental to a person's freedom, arguing otherwise is immoral.

I actually lived in a country where everyone had a right for free shelter. It was called the USSR. The quality and quantity of said shelter was beyond abysmal. Several families sharing a single apartment, a family per room, was the norm. If anyone attempted to squatter anywhere, they would very quickly find themselves free sheltered in Gulag. If they were to argue for their rights against oppression and exploitation,…

Good news - the US is interested in Part B, jail for squatting (including outdoors in a public place) but not Part A, because communism is terrible.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And who has to build that shelter Jimmy & Rosalynn Carter https://www.habitat.org/carter-work-project > what about their freedom? I think they made good use of it. We in the USA are the wealthiest nation in the history of the world. We could solve homelessness and hunger tomorrow. I'm not saying that people should lose their property to squatters, that's not the solution. I'm saying that we could build ~300,000 new…

Then everyone will go sleep in the street, in order to get a free house.

No, they won’t.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how exactly does that work? you went into my house, I throw you out, you call police and they come and haul me away? what stops me from calling the police on random guys claiming they threw me out? what will you say when police comes? "I was trying to steal his house and he threw me out"? im not saying to beat the squatter to a bloody pulp, im just saying, you go in, they are evicted, end of story

When the police come the squatter says that they are illegal tenant that has been living there can you beat them up and threw them out. They say that you were renting them a room or some nonsense like that. In California the courts hold squatters innocent until proven guilty through a lengthy legal process. Meanwhile you are charged for with no delay because it is illegal to beat someone even if they are squatting in…

we were talking about spain I think, but either way, I didnt say beat up, but then,

what stops me from going outside a random house, call police, and have the residents hauled away saying EXACTLY what you just said?

and IF what you say is true, I would think that any squatter trying such a thing would be suicidal, because IF this is the outcome that would happen, perhaps residents might consider a slightly different solution

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#860
post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not endorsing the view, just sharing lines of reasoning I've seen. Paying money to the bank implies you financed your purchase of a home. This is not necessarily a morally-neutral activity, it's in fact nuanced but we've done a good job of handwaving away the nuance in the last 4-5 generations of Americans. A small vignette to explain: financing allows people to leverage their credit history and income to make larger…

So, I personally like the idea of someone working with a builder to build your house. I also like the idea of only ever buying something rather than financing it. I also think that if that was only the option, housing prices would rise rather than fall. Cash up front, I assume in an escrow so that buyer can't cheat builder and builder can't run away with the money. This means that a someone who wants to build/buy a h…

Not necessarily, you just might not build 100% of your eventual home immediately.

It used to be (i.e. prior to the postwar expansion of credit to the American consumer) pretty common to build a "starter home" that was intended to be expanded. You start with the basics (basement, kitchen, bathroom, bedroom) and expand modularly from there as your prosperity and needs allow.

In the midwest, they would start by building the foundation, basement, and a very modest first floor. As the family prospered, had children, and developed roots in the neighborhood, they'd expand the above-ground portion of the home in the summer months. You can find homes frozen at each stage of development from the pre-depression 1900s still around today, although they're of greater archaeological value today than housing stock value. A lot of present-day "colonial" housing stock in the Northeastern U.S. have evidence of this gradual accrual over the decades.

This idea of "build a whole mansion at once" was historically reserved for the truly wealthy, and has only been "practical" for a greater segment of society for the last 50 years (again, with the expansion of consumer credit, not because we can actually afford these things).

You could still choose to build things this older style. Our culture of "obtain everything all at once, immediately up to the limit of your purchasing power" is the main impediment. That, and building codes might frown on some earlier-phase iterations, though YMMV.

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