Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

idealista.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

751–760 of 930 posts

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#751

Post by taopai »

miguelxt wrote: post #497
chous wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. It's a non-existing problem that the media insists us to convince otherwise, just to force us to pay for useless and absurdly expensive monthly services. Poor people being afraid of other poor people, a classic.

It may be overblown by media, sure, let's say we agree on that, but I know of at least 3 cases of very close people that have suffered the issue in the last 3 years alone. It may be my social bubble, but I don't think it's a completely fabricated matter.

I know no one who had his first home or summer house squatted. No one.

I've lived here all my life.

I know at least 15 okupas who lived +4 years in properties of banks, unused and not finished, which, after eviction, are still unused and unmaintained. What harm did this okupas do? They didn't contributed to rent inflation, so they did some good.

Having property unused and don't having an eye on it is madness. I wouldn't do it. That's common sense. People think that money buy things. Ok, buy a Ferrari and park it outside of a big city and leave it there during a month.

This law is here to protect the right of housing. Some mafias use it? Could be, but this law works to protect real families and the benefits are much greater than the harm that opportunists do abusing it, this organizations doesn't have anything to do with the okupa movement.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#752

Post by taopai »

ilikeitdark wrote: post #478

When I moved here to Barcelona, it seemed like many "squats" were punk and artist taking over unused or abandoned large spaces. Many we even open to the public and had events, and some were even part of the local community. Nowadays it's more often drug addicts and criminals and mafias taking over uninhibited homes (even when people are on vacation), who terrorize the neighborhoods.

Some people used to say that touristic companies promoted this to lower prices and buy cheap to remodel whole neighborhoods.

Like Raval. Some German companies had bought whole buildings and know they rent their flats, or even worst, rooms in flats with locks. This is crazy.

I've been in such a place, in the heart of Raval, full of drug addicts, and filth enter to a place remodeled inside with small rooms who "expats" pay a lot, A LOT. It's crazy.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#753

Post by taopai »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #172
alexpc201 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not what happened a few meters from my home in a completely closed apartment. The "squatters" broke the first-floor window to enter, the Mossos took 15 minutes to arrive and did absolutely nothing. They have been there for six months, they already changed the front door, and the owner cannot get them out.

Can the owner hire thugs to show up with baseball bats? I would do that, or do it myself with a ski mask.

You can but you can end in prison.

This is not like USA were you shoot anyone who enters in your property.

If you harm this people you surely will have to face penal consequences.

Why? Because then, people will do the same with a small family which can not pay rent this month, after you increased the price to the double because you want to rent to tourists.

The solution is simple: use your properties. Would you let your car with the keys inside? No. Don't let your houses unused. It's is an offense to people who want to work and live. Properties shouldn't be a business nor a speculative means.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#754

Post by taopai »

veeti wrote: post #233
reify wrote: post #84

Squatters cannot break into your home and take residence. They can only enter if you leave a window or door open for them to enter. If they break-in that is a criminal offence and the police will treat it as a buglary and arrest those in the property. I used to squat here on Airstrip One in my twenties when I was homeless. We did not squat in homes where people lived, We squatted in empty properties. The utilities co…

> They can only enter if you leave a window or door open for them to enter. How is this not victim blaming? Next you'll tell me that a victim of sexual assault shouldn't have left their window open by wearing such a short dress, and they were asking for it anyway.

This is not like this.

The point is, if you break anything to enter you used force and it's much worse.

But if it's your residence, your house, and at least you used once a year is "morada", and then they are intruders and they are breaking the law.

It doesn't matter if they change the lock or anything like this. If mossos doesn't do anything, which would amaze me, then call the other forces, like civil, local o nacional.

If you let a house unused all year long or during years, it's your problem. I don't know what's the purpose of owning a house and not using it, in this case, I would appreciate that someone breaks in to live there with pacifically, this people exist.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#755

Post by hnbad »

Wytwwww wrote: post #479
hnbad wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was wondering what kind of website this is given how obviously it is siding with landlords. Squatting is only a problem that can happen if housing remains unoccupied. And it's more likely to happen if there is no strong communal network in the area (because most people don't want squatters moving in next to them because of the implications). The easiest way to have housing remain unoccupied for long periods of time…

> I was wondering what kind of website You do know that it's run by a VC company? Not particularly surprising that most most people generally support the protection of property rights

I was talking about the website the article is on, not HN. I'm well aware that HN is run by Y Combinator. It's in the URL.

That said, squatting unused housing is literally "disrupting the housing market" by eliminating the waste of critical resources. It's upsetting the market and breaking established rules, sure, but so are AirBnB, Uber, generative AI and cryptocurrencies.

If you think about the founding mythology of "Hacker culture", squatting fits right in there alongside the stories of defrauding telephone companies with "phreaking" and other "adventures". Except of course for the obvious class difference between hacking your Ivy League university's computer lab and having to squat an empty building because the alternative is being homeless.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#756

Post by tiborsaas »

Vegenoid wrote: post #634
tiborsaas wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complex problem, I understand that rent is a sensitive issue. But sustaining a system that criminals actively exploit is probably resulting in the worst possible outcome for everyone. He did not rent the place out, but preferred to keep it to themselves as a pleasant place to spend a few weeks to months as they are getting old now. But after this incident he sold it quickly.

Without making judgement myself, this is exactly what squatters, and those who support them, would consider a success story: 1. The house has wealthy owners who treat it as an investment 2. The house remains empty almost all of the time 3. Squatters occupy the residence and get more utility out of it than the owners 4. As a result, the owners sell the residence, maybe to someone who will live in it or rent it (but ma…

I did not dot share this story to gain sympathy, this is simply what happened.

I'd be caution against shifting over to victim blaming, like he asked for it. Rings a bell?

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#757

Post by tiborsaas »

passwordle wrote: post #658
tiborsaas wrote: post #351

A friend of mine acquired an investment property in Spain and after a while okupas moved in, lock changed etc. A woman with two children. They were clearly helped with an organized team to get into that place. The sad resolution after lots of headache and thinking was to pay the invaders the 5000EUR they demanded to move out. There was some followup information about what happened after this. She was picked up by a c…

> There was some followup information about what happened after this. She was picked up by a car and taken to the next place to occupy. I'm so sorry to hear that your friend eventually had to sell his vacation home. Fuck that poor woman and her two kids, if they're so poor they should live on the streets in the dirt where they belong !

She had a job though.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#758

Post by taopai »

bluecalm wrote: post #432

I was considering buying a house in Spain to spend half a year in. Okupas was one of the reason I am not doing it. Instead I will be paying professional landlords to rent a house to live in for half a year. A real win for squatters' "ideology". If it continues the only people who own property will be professionals with private armies and organized security systems.

Great. I am glad to hear this.

You forgot about people who live there all year round. You know, the ones who work, maintain services, offer food, have children who will keep everything working.

Spain shouldn't be a big hotel, it is also the country of people who live all year round.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#759

Post by harperlee »

Manuel_D wrote: post #579
carlosjobim wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a renter buys an apartment or house to live in, that means the place they rented becomes vacant. It is the most basic math, addition and subtraction. Lower real estate prices means less renters and thus lower rents. Unless you conjure people into the country by immigration.

Making renting riskier doesn't inherently make property less expensive. If a shortage of rental properties makes more people want to buy condos and houses, then there's more demand for condos and houses. Making renting riskier also means that apartment buildings are less profitable and less likely to be built. A more likely outcome is that condos and houses get more expensive because of the shortage of apartments. An…

At the end of the day, all of this discussion does not detract anything from my original point:

> You would be surprised about the sheer number of spaniards that would welcome this second-order effect.

Lots of spaniards would clap at this, even if they're mistaken (what your arguing for). So peter335's argument would not be listened to.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#760

Post by nerdawson »

taopai wrote: post #750
nerdawson wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm merely pointing out that you're assuming ignorance simply because I have a different opinion to you. Having lived there myself, I'd like to think I have something of an understanding of the culture. Freeloaders, admittedly a charged word, is how I'd view someone who helps themselves to something I've worked to pay for. How is that any different to a mugger stealing your phone or your wallet? After all, they're li…

- Have you worked there with the average salary? - Have you met the reality of working class people there? - Have you stayed on a touristic city or on industrial areas? - The real criminals are people from Spain, speculative funds and tourists from all over the world buying property here and not using it. They steal to everybody. Then we can't hire people for our business because people can't find rent. We aren't pay…

> - The real criminals are people from Spain, speculative funds and tourists from all over the world buying property here and not using it. They steal to everybody.

So create a tax for leaving property empty and use that to fund programs to address homelessness.

There are plenty of solutions which aren’t permitting theft.

Banning short term rentals for instance would be pretty effective. There could be other side effects but it’d certainly lead to many second homes being sold.

> We aren't paying low, the problem is the crazy rent market.

I sympathise with this. My assumption would be that imposing punitive taxes on unoccupied properties is the most realistic solution.

If that forces people to sell, supply goes up. If people continue as they were, there’s more money available to do something with.

Post reply on HN