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Most life on Earth is dormant, after pulling an 'emergency brake'

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Re: Most life on Earth is dormant, after pulling an 'emergency brake'

#221

Post by astrange »

Karellen wrote: post #115
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #2

> Karla Helena-Bueno discovered a common hibernation factor when she accidentally left an Arctic bacterium on ice for too long. I love how this story follows the magic pattern of so much of innovation and discovery - an accident. It's refreshingly human and not a mode of discovery that machine learning is going to completely take away from us.

> The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny..." -- commonly attributed to Isaac Asimov

Mid-1900s science fiction writers really seemed to like just randomly saying stuff and having people believe them. This isn't as bad as "Pournelle's Iron Law", but it's just as fact free, and I don't think it's good to believe fiction writers.

Since then, we've moved on and now instead believe cynical standup comedians or late night TV hosts are the ones who know the truth about everything.

Re: Most life on Earth is dormant, after pulling an 'emergency brake'

#222

Post by zrn900 »

Jach wrote: post #51
onionisafruit wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real trick is being somebody that a future generation will go to the trouble of defrosting.

If we found a crypt of a hundred well-preserved mummies from a few thousand years ago who for all we could tell were basically peasants in their lifetimes, not grand or interesting people, and we had the ability to revive them into the modern world, I still think we would. The "interest" factor of future generations reviving cryonics customers when it's possible to do so is like the weakest factor in trying to predic…

> were basically peasants in their lifetimes, not grand or interesting people

What are you saying - the lives of ordinary people are the holy grail in archaeology and history as they are more difficult to investigate and construct. A king's remains and belongings tell you little about the actual society.

Re: Most life on Earth is dormant, after pulling an 'emergency brake'

#223

Post by Phiwise_ »

mvc wrote: post #199

Sshhh. Noone tell the proles that it's perfectly natural to have a bit of slack where many individuals in complex systems are doing nothing and, far from being a leech on society, it is actually essential to keeping the overall system alive.

Are the proles in your metaphor also capable of indefinitely suspending half of all their starvation-level resource consumption? Are they doing it as stochastic insurance against a population-level extinction event, which they are capable of recovering from? This is a mind-numbingly poor extension of this article's actual contents.

Re: Most life on Earth is dormant, after pulling an 'emergency brake'

#224

Post by Jach »

zrn900 wrote: post #222
Jach wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we found a crypt of a hundred well-preserved mummies from a few thousand years ago who for all we could tell were basically peasants in their lifetimes, not grand or interesting people, and we had the ability to revive them into the modern world, I still think we would. The "interest" factor of future generations reviving cryonics customers when it's possible to do so is like the weakest factor in trying to predic…

> were basically peasants in their lifetimes, not grand or interesting people What are you saying - the lives of ordinary people are the holy grail in archaeology and history as they are more difficult to investigate and construct. A king's remains and belongings tell you little about the actual society.

We're not talking about remains and belongings, we're talking about people. Bringing back a king, who was likely literate and learned, would be more valuable to me than a random peasant or slave, though I'd still want to bring them back too. I'd also have someone like Archimedes over a king. But anyway, it sounds like you don't disagree that there'd be plenty of motivation to bring even the peasants back.

(You're probably familiar with the book Montaillou? For passersby, it's a neat insight into the minds of ordinary people from hundreds of years ago.)

Re: Most life on Earth is dormant, after pulling an 'emergency brake'

#225

Post by Jach »

science4sail wrote: post #211
Jach wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we found a crypt of a hundred well-preserved mummies from a few thousand years ago who for all we could tell were basically peasants in their lifetimes, not grand or interesting people, and we had the ability to revive them into the modern world, I still think we would. The "interest" factor of future generations reviving cryonics customers when it's possible to do so is like the weakest factor in trying to predic…

That's probably a motivating factor for defrosting your first few hundred/thousand mummies, but would the "interest" factor still be there for the millionth mummy?

I think it would. No, probably not the highest priority for the society doing it, but something that would continue along regardless. A quick google tells me that over 11,000 dinosaur fossils have been found so far, people still seem interested in finding more. But there are other reasons besides direct interest of the present society, especially at that scale. A few: interest of those having been revived now wanting to revive their waiting friends/family/time-mates, humanitarian reasons (Europe alone has absorbed millions of refugees in the last several years), and, turning a little from pure thought experiment of mummies to currently frozen people, potential contractual reasons. (Though notably Alcor only has a couple hundred frozen corpses/brains, and less than a couple thousand members signed up for the procedure.)

Re: Most life on Earth is dormant, after pulling an 'emergency brake'

#226

Post by shiroiushi »

bamboozled wrote: post #109
shiroiushi wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just ask any parent who had worthless kids how well that works out in practice. Sure, you might get lucky and have good kids, but lots of parents don't, and it's not always their fault.

Their kids might be really nice?

Sure, they might be. But they also might not be. The odds really aren't that great, from what I've seen in my life.

Imagine you had an opportunity to make an investment. The performance odds of this investment are: 1) a 10% change of making 10 times your money, 2) a 60% chance of doubling your money, and 3) a 30% chance of losing ALL your money (not just the investment amount, but going completely bankrupt) and having your life completely ruined. Would you take that investment?

Of course these numbers are made up, but from what I've seen in life, it's probably not that far off: there's a non-zero, and fairly significant chance, of having a really awful kid that really screws up your life. If you're highly risk-averse, it's understandable I think why you might want to pass. Remember, estimates for sociopathy in the general population are 5-10%.

Re: Most life on Earth is dormant, after pulling an 'emergency brake'

#227

Post by mvc »

Phiwise_ wrote: post #223
mvc wrote: post #199

Sshhh. Noone tell the proles that it's perfectly natural to have a bit of slack where many individuals in complex systems are doing nothing and, far from being a leech on society, it is actually essential to keeping the overall system alive.

Are the proles in your metaphor also capable of indefinitely suspending half of all their starvation-level resource consumption? Are they doing it as stochastic insurance against a population-level extinction event, which they are capable of recovering from? This is a mind-numbingly poor extension of this article's actual contents.

Probably not. Which is why the rest of the population should fund their (very modest) consumption until they're ready to be productive again rather than force them into some risky low paid job like delivering pizzas on a push bike so they can generate profits for investors who use those profits to heat their swimming pools and cool down their massive houses. Or lately plough into AI planet heating credits.

The population-level extinction event is coming if we don't change course.

Re: Most life on Earth is dormant, after pulling an 'emergency brake'

#228

Post by lm28469 »

dukeyukey wrote: post #106
lm28469 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the goal of humanity to replicate infinitely and love as long as possible regardless of anything else ? Because that's what cancers do and it never end well for the host

To a point, yes. That's the goal of practically any living thing, including cancer.

We're supposedly smart monkey who can project in the future and act accordingly.

Re: Most life on Earth is dormant, after pulling an 'emergency brake'

#229

Post by leobg »

confidantlake wrote: post #195
leobg wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is she still alive? I can recommend interviewing her about the past and recording it. There may come a time where you will be glad to have those recordings. Or your children/grandchildren. Also, given the right prompting, you may learn things about her that you have never seen before.

She is, and mentally very sharp too. That is a great idea, will do that.

They don’t have to be perfect. With Wisper and LLMs it’s easy to later filter out the interesting parts. Or even to turn it into some kind of personal memoir booklet.

Re: Most life on Earth is dormant, after pulling an 'emergency brake'

#230

Post by kmmlng »

shiroiushi wrote: post #33
bamboozled wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to freeze yourself, you just have children, that is how life goes on.

Just ask any parent who had worthless kids how well that works out in practice. Sure, you might get lucky and have good kids, but lots of parents don't, and it's not always their fault.

I think any parent who thinks of their child as "worthless" has got to be at least partially at fault for whatever pathologies follow from that kind of attitude.
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