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Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?

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Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?

#181
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are associated with an appearance of the Burger King himself explicitly asking for a shrine in the location ...According to the guy trying to sell you a big mac or whatever they are called there.

Royal with cheese

Another 'e' is required in this sentence.

Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?

#182
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are associated with an appearance of the Burger King himself explicitly asking for a shrine in the location ...According to the guy trying to sell you a big mac or whatever they are called there.

Royal with cheese

Another 'e' is required in this sentence.

Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the candy cane, but the fish: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variations_of_the_ichthys_sy... .

Might the fish have anything to do with precession of the equinoxes into Pisces? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38761574

The fish was derived from a Greek acronym. The wikipedia link above mentions this as well. Is there any evidence for an astrological significance?

Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?

#185
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do so! This would be a fascinating experiment and perhaps a famous one, given that similar answers are the knee jerk reaction of armchair skeptics the world over.

I asked GPT-4. It did the following calculation (summarized): Let's consider Europe as roughly a 10 million square km area. The probability of a single point falling within a 50 km wide band (assuming the band runs the full length of Europe) is about 0.01581 (1.581%). The probability of seven points aligning within a 50 km wide band across Europe is approximately: 10^-14

This is an impressively irrelevant calculation, regardless of whether or not GPT did the arithmetic correctly. If you want to calculate something similar but actually useful, you could get a list of all "cathedrals" dedicated to st michael, find the line for each combination of 2 cathedrals, and then calculate the probability that 5 more also fall on that line.

But it turns out that we don't even have to go that far. The line found in TFA is about ~50km wide. Any given 50km wide line covers approximately 1% of europe's area. There are allegedly 800+ locations dedicated to st michael in the UK, so let's make a conservative estimate and say there are ~1000 in all of europe. This means that in any given 1% of europe's area, there are on average 10. Therefore literally any 50km wide line that crosses a substantial portion of europe has a solid chance at having 7 or more st michael dedications in it.

Edit: actually via a generalization of the pigeonhole principle, if we assume that europe is 3000km tall and contains 1000 sites dedicated to st michael, there must exist at least one 50km band that contains at least 17 sites.

Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?

#186

Are any of these actually cathedrals? I see some monasteries and sacred sites, I don't see any cathedrals in that list. The difference is that 7 cathedrals, all named after St. Michael, found in a basically straight line would certainly not be a coincidence. It would be like there being 7 Google complexes in a straight line spread around the world: something's going on here. But 7 random religious sites named after o…

This is an interesting point. Wikipedia's page on St. Michael's Sword describes it as "monasteries and other sacred sites" and also notes that they are also "almost all located on prominent hilltops". Only four of the seven locations show up on Wikipedia's list of "churches dedicated to Saint Michael" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_(archangel)#Churches_d... ). Also worth noting: "[Michael's] churches were of…

Here's a partial map of churches in Europe dedicated to Michael: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1MyM

If you filter to monasteries, it trims it down a lot https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1MyP

Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cathedral has nothing to do with size of the church. If a church has a bishop resides, it's a cathedral.

Correct! The word cathedral comes from a Latin word meaning “seat.” The seat referred to is the seat of the bishop, who is the leader of a group of churches related to the cathedral. The bishop's seat is both a metaphor for the cathedral as the bishop's “seat of power” and his actual chair, the "cathedra," inside the cathedral.

Strictly, it's a Greek word meaning "seat" (καθέδρα), although it was borrowed into Latin with what I believe is a more restricted meaning. There is also a Latin word meaning "seat" (sedes) which is also used to refer to the seat of a bishop (an episcopal see)!

Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?

#188
post #57

I'm not a civil engineer so I don't know for sure, but I'd guess you can't just throw a cathedral up just anywhere you want. The land has to be the right composition, you need to have good enough transport links to get the raw materials to where you're building it, you need local talent to actually build it, it can't be in the sea . It'd be surprising if these buildings were exactly aligned. Presumably people could e…

Salisbury Cathedral (highest medieval spire surviving in the UK, at 404 feet!) was built on a floodplain close to the river, with shallow foundations only four feet deep. But the prior cathedral had been on a hilltop with much strife over access to water, and at least that would not be a problem at the new cathedral.

https://salisburycathedral.wordpress.com/the-spire/ is a glorious essay on the architecture of that spire.

Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?

#189

Are they aligned because they are famous, or are they famous because they are aligned? Or are they aligned because if I pick 7 famous monuments aligned I can draw a line, look over my shoulder and say "ho look, if we draw a line it match!" From wikipedia, the list of St Michael churches: St. Michael's Church (disambiguation) Parroquia de San Miguel Arcángel (es), San Miguel de Allende, Guanajuato Mexico World Heritag…

I don't particularly care if if these line up, but I find the list interesting:

Multiple churches in the Philippines presumably due to Spanish Catholicism.

I didn't grow up in California so I don't know the Spanish missions very well (standard elementary school fare). I had never heard of San Miguel.

I've also never heard of Polwatte or Miramichi.

Two churches in the "Moscow Kremlin?" What's that about? And what's the story about Qingdao?

And why just the name of a state, Minnesota, instead of a more precise location?

Then I go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Michael%27s_Church and it disambiguates from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Michael_and_All_Angels_Chur.... Finally, yet another long list in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_Saint_Michael

Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?

#190
post #10

> Certainly 7 cathedrals are too many to be a coincidence With the number of cathedrals in Europe I don't really think this is supported.

For what it's worth (not much), the line can be extended with similar error bars to include:

- St Michael's Church in Bengaluru, India

- Gereja Katolik Santo Mikael in Surabaya, Indonesia

- St Michael's Catholic Church in Kilcoy, Australia

- St Michael's Church in Auckland, New Zealand

Perhaps the real data challenge here is to find the straight line with the most St Michael'ses globally.

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