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Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

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Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#661

Post by its_ethan »

TotalCrackpot wrote: post #641
its_ethan wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like precise logical argumentation That's not quite how your comments elsewhere in this thread read lol > This is not true, many civilizations were against private property rights and private property rights were never universal Wanna name a couple of those civilizations that didn't have property rights that managed to thrive and grow beyond a population of like 10,000? If you're going to point towards something…

It seems like you don't discuss in a good faith to be honest. > That's not quite how your comments elsewhere in this thread read lol What do you don't understand? I can try to explain in more elementarily if you have problems with understanding something. > Wanna name a couple of those civilizations that didn't have property rights that managed to thrive and grow beyond a population of like 10,000? This list can be q…

I’m meeting you where you are, my friend.

Hope you have a nice rest of your day.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#662

Post by foldr »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #172
alexpc201 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not what happened a few meters from my home in a completely closed apartment. The "squatters" broke the first-floor window to enter, the Mossos took 15 minutes to arrive and did absolutely nothing. They have been there for six months, they already changed the front door, and the owner cannot get them out.

Can the owner hire thugs to show up with baseball bats? I would do that, or do it myself with a ski mask.

Sure. Although I guess the occupiers can also hire thugs to beat the owner up with baseball bats. There are reasons why this form of dispute resolution has gone out of fashion in the kind of countries you might want to live in.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#663

Post by passwordle »

lukan wrote: post #548
RyanHamilton wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm open to being wrong but I believe the data shows, old people in the UK are living in houses that are too large and receiving pensions that rise with inflation whilst "young people" are paying huge rents, can't afford to buy and are stuck with huge student debt. Why shouldn't the old couple move to let 10x apartments be built? Or does the data show differently?

"Why shouldn't the old couple move to let 10x apartments be built?" Imagine you worked all your life and now you just want to enjoy your peace in your home for your last years. You really would not want to move and I am very against driving old people out of their homes, even though I am one of those young people with a small apartment also seeing empty and unused space everywhere.

I think not what parent comment said?

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#664

Post by carlosjobim »

bdowling wrote: post #493
dr__mario wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but first: is it financially risky right now to own properties? No, based on the data we have. Second: can renters be hurt even more? Are landlords the most vulnerable people right now? The situation is pretty awful right now, while at the same time there are people whose sole contribution to society is "owning flats". And I agree on increasing property taxes (any progressive taxes over capital would do).

> Are landlords the most vulnerable people right now? Increasing risk will eliminate a lot of the "mom and pop" landlords (widows, former small-business owners, retirees, etc.). If it is too risky to own only a few extra condo units or a single small apartment building, then those properties will go to large corporate landlords. > there are people whose sole contribution to society is "owning flats". Landlords make s…

Is it worth the major part of a full time worker's income to have somebody take care of those things in the rare occasion they happen? Most normal people can easily fix their plumbing issues, a leaky roof, termites and such in a couple of days with a few hundreds of dollars in budget.

Landlords generally spend much less than 5% of their yearly rent income on maintenance. If they actually do something to improve an apartment, that is just an investment in their own real estate, that they own 100% even after having other people pay for it several times over during decades.

Edit: Or look at it this way: Would you hire and pay somebody a good salary for working maybe 5 or 10 days per year for you?

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#665

Post by redeeman »

narag wrote: post #534
redeeman wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im amazed your friend didnt come up with a swift solution, and what would the squatters do? call police and say they were squatting? show their rental agreement?? wouldnt have happened to me

Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. The "swift" solution would send you to jail in mere hours. You're presumed guilty. Yes, it defies any logic, but that's the way that it is. My mom's husband had rented his previous flat (to complement his pension) to two women. They were working, very "normal" persons, and the contract specified that no other person could live there. One of them started dating a…

so you're saying if i book a flight to spain tomorow, find someone who has JUST moved into a house, perhaps scouting for moving trucks, scream loudly, call police and say they threw me out by force, the guy just moving into his new house will be hauled away to jail and presumed guilty? no, that is not how it is.

what will happen is, police will come, you are in your house, some idiot claims to have legal right to the house, he cannot present SHIT, and at worst he will file some police report about you throwing him out, of which you might be fined.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#666

Post by redeeman »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #623
s1artibartfast wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no swift solution legally. At least not in California, and it sounds like Spain is similar. It can take years and six figures to get a squatter out.

The person you are replying to seems to be advocating for the use of force. A swift, extra legal solution

no, the one trying to steal a house is begging for that.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#667

Post by passwordle »

ruiseal wrote: post #295
jmcb wrote: post #141

There is no such "okupas problem" in Spain. If someone enter your dwelling (don't really know if is the correct term in English. In Spanish the house where you actually live is called "morada"), you can call the police and they will evict whoever is in the house in less than 24 hours. Other topic is holiday residences; those are not dwelling ("morada") so, in Spain, the right to have a dwelling is on the top of priva…

If you own a second property and decide to rent it out and your tenant decides to stop paying rent you're fucked. Until they get an eviction notice from a court, which can take more than a year, you have to keep paying utilities for them. Nor can you change the locks. If the okupa has children you're even more fucked. Considering how many desokupa services exist I'd say it's a real problem.

>Considering how many desokupa services exist I'd say it's a real problem.

None of what you said sounds like a problem. What is the problem? It sounds like a policy to ensure dwellings, which are obviously a scarce resource in those areas have actual people living in them. That is kind of their point. Of course it would be beneficial to have a better legal framework to ensure housing security and building maintenance.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#668

Post by redeeman »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #656
redeeman wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im amazed your friend didnt come up with a swift solution, and what would the squatters do? call police and say they were squatting? show their rental agreement?? wouldnt have happened to me

Yeah. Reminds me of a funny one in France where a stolen car had a tracker and it's location, behind a garage door, was known. But the police was saying: "Nothing can be done" . Turns out: the owner of the car had a friend who was a farmer. He came up with a tractor and ripped the garage door apart. That was his definition of "nothing can be done". If motherfuckers play dirty, play dirty with the motherfuckers.

my brother had a motorcycle stolen, and police didnt do shit. Eventually my brother managed to find out who stole it, and police still did not want to come. Turns out the thief also had some problems(owing money) with hells angels. A deal was struck with the fine angels, and the location of the perp was exchanged with (later that day) a recovered motorcycle. He was told the guy probably wouldnt be stealing motorcycles for a while :)

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#669

Post by s1artibartfast »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #623
s1artibartfast wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no swift solution legally. At least not in California, and it sounds like Spain is similar. It can take years and six figures to get a squatter out.

The person you are replying to seems to be advocating for the use of force. A swift, extra legal solution

I see. The problem with that is that the laws on the squatters side.

They asked what will they do, call the police? I suspect that's exactly what they would do.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#670

Post by s1artibartfast »

redeeman wrote: post #666
HDThoreaun wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person you are replying to seems to be advocating for the use of force. A swift, extra legal solution

no, the one trying to steal a house is begging for that.

They may be begging for it, but the law is on their side so they have nothing to fear from it. If they go to the police you'll end up in jail and I'll still be in your house.
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