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Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

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Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#421

Post by rudnevr »

rolandog wrote: post #303
rudnevr wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the info. It's not that widespread, yes, but due to its gravity it's intoxicating and polarizing the public. From what I observe, the amount of cases could have dropped down because many people choose to not buy or somehow shield their property (sometimes just filling windows with bricks, for example, which looks weird). So I'm not sure it's because the okupas/govt/police somehow changed the direction, it'…

> Btw, bying an apartment in Barcelona costs you 10% tax already, that probably discourages most speculation (and the prices have been stagnant for a couple of years). I'm not too sure those measures deter those who are filthy-rich. Would you agree that it can be viewed as the cost of doing business... and, worst — that it could price out small competitors (allowing for the formation of cartels of big landlords)?

nope, there's no cartels of big landlords in Bcn, that's a leftist fantasy

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#422

Post by hgomersall »

gsky wrote: post #391
Aurornis wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can. I had a friend who bought a house that needed a lot of work. Before he could get started on the remodel, someone broke in t…

Law abiding citizens are the suckers it seems everywhere. It's easy to be nobel and generous when you are not the one being taken advantage of. Regardless of who benefits from Lawlessness, it always ends up destroying the society

Said every tyrant ever.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#423

Post by diggan »

ruiseal wrote: post #295
jmcb wrote: post #141

There is no such "okupas problem" in Spain. If someone enter your dwelling (don't really know if is the correct term in English. In Spanish the house where you actually live is called "morada"), you can call the police and they will evict whoever is in the house in less than 24 hours. Other topic is holiday residences; those are not dwelling ("morada") so, in Spain, the right to have a dwelling is on the top of priva…

If you own a second property and decide to rent it out and your tenant decides to stop paying rent you're fucked. Until they get an eviction notice from a court, which can take more than a year, you have to keep paying utilities for them. Nor can you change the locks. If the okupa has children you're even more fucked. Considering how many desokupa services exist I'd say it's a real problem.

> Considering how many desokupa services exist I'd say it's a real problem.

How many does exists? I've only heard of one (literally called "Desokupa"), but you're saying there are many companies offering this, not just local chapters of the major one?

Tried searching but could only find that one, and I couldn't find any sources on the number of companies existing offering this service either.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#424

Post by nerdawson »

chous wrote: post #362
nerdawson wrote: post #342

I have family who let out property in Spain. They, along with other people in a similar position to them, have all suddenly become experts in smart home tech. They have video doorbells, motion sensors, door sensors, etc. All so that they can be alerted to any activity immediately, allowing them to act within the exceptionally short eviction window. The reality on the ground is that these ridiculous policies are widel…

I don't agree. It's a non-existing problem that the media insists us to convince otherwise, just to force us to pay for useless and absurdly expensive monthly services. Poor people being afraid of other poor people, a classic.

I don't doubt the media are prepared to jump on and inflate any problem if it'll drive engagement. That doesn't mean the underlying issue isn't real.

I could offer some anecdotal evidence but that seems pointless. Especially when the stats speak for themselves. It's not just media hype.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#425

Post by diggan »

rozularen wrote: post #201
Malcolmlisk wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely true, so if you work as a real estate investor, you need to check your knowledge and start studying or stop lying. If you try to squat (okupar) the house where someone lives, you'll be evicted just when the police arrives to your house. And you'll get a criminal sanction (allanamiento de morada). The problem comes when your third house is occupied by someone, since this is not where you live, then…

> This "problem" is just for people with a lot of houses, rentist, that are part of the problem. Or the banks and vulture funds, who had most of the houses and flats in spain. And the squatting problem in spain is ridiculous small. THe percentage over the poblation is ridiculous. This that, in this article, don't mention at all. This is a problem that *anyone* with more than 1 property might suffer. FTFY It's unbelie…

> This is a problem that anyone with more than 1 property might suffer. FTFY

Yes, "lots" = more than one

Spain is still struggling with higher demand than supply, so people end up homeless. At the same time, Spain struggles with properties in high-demand areas being empty because the owner doesn't want to rent or sell it, so no one uses it at all.

Finally, we're getting "upkeep taxes" added to those places, so they can either be utilized, or the owner "penalized" of sorts.

But up until now, there wasn't anything like that, so the alternative for many is to hole up in a empty building no one cares about, or live on the street. And obviously, many take the first choice. It's hard for me to blame them when the other choice is living on the streets.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#426

Post by kaskakokos »

next_xibalba wrote: post #318
madeofpalk wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying a house and purposefully leaving it empty is immoral, sqatting or not.

No, it’s not. Living where you want, for free, is not a right.

Yes, It is in Spain:

Article 47 of Spanish Constitution:

All Spaniards are entitled to enjoy decent and adequate housing. The public authorities shall promote the necessary conditions and shall establish appropriate standards in order to make this right effective, regulating land use in accordance with the general interest in order to prevent speculation.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#427

Post by s1artibartfast »

foldr wrote: post #405
s1artibartfast wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be worse, as you are losing rental income, which can have larger impacts on your budget and life. I have family in California that had to deal with squatters on a rental property. It cost them ~400k, which included their kids college funds and retirement. Costs were 3 years of lost rent while they paid the mortgage 250k damages done by the squatters, plus legal fees.

It could be worse for some people in some cases, but it’s pretty clear which is going to be worse in general most of the time.

Perhaps, financial damage is real and can have long term consequences that outlive short term inconvenience.

You are probably right in the majority of cases,but I do think it is a mistake to automatically discount financial harm as less.

If I invest 20 years of my income in a property that someone has stolen, that is a significant loss to me in human terms as well as financially.

I would be open to treating the destruction of such property equivalent to the taking of an equivalent amount of one's life.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#428

Post by next_xibalba »

TotalCrackpot wrote: post #409
next_xibalba wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make an interesting point, TotalCrackpot. These “activists” do seem to be captured by the strange illogic of a mind virus.

[flagged]

Well, let's play it out. A squatter steals an owner's property while they're away on a Summer-long vacation. Later, the squatter spends some temporary time away from the property. During this time, another squatter comes along and steals the property from them. And so on. How does this not just lead to an unending string of lawlessness. Further, why would anyone invest in building and maintaining housing when their property can just be stolen from them without consequence? We'll be back to straw huts in no time. Claiming that renting housing is "oppressive" is absurd in the extreme. It is an arrangement of mutual benefit that is done voluntarily. It provides flexibility, mobility, and access that home ownership doesn't. In fact, the ability to invest in housing increases access to housing, not the other way around. No one is arguing that we should eliminate tenant protections against arbitrary eviction or unfair treatment. We should simply have sane protections for property ownership. There is no circumstances in which the theft of property is a smart or sane solution.

> neo-fascist

Your turn. How is pointing out that people have been seduced by a worldview that is neither fact based nor logical "neo-fascist".

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#429

Post by diggan »

santialbo wrote: post #341

I see a lot of people here justifying the occupation of bank-owned homes as if that is okay. I hope you never have to experience living next to squatters, as among other things, you might end up paying for their exaggeratedly high utilities.

I've lived next to squatters (having them above me, below and sharing a wall), what exactly am I suppose to have hated about it? They were never troublesome, but of course I can understand in some other cases they were, but we have laws for those things already.

If they were being loud, you can call the police and complain. If they're ruining stuff on your side, you can also call the police. I'm not sure in what way they could bother me, and I wouldn't have the law on my side if I chose to act on it.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#430

Post by ThinkBeat »

eduardo_f wrote: post #145
jmcb wrote: post #141

There is no such "okupas problem" in Spain. If someone enter your dwelling (don't really know if is the correct term in English. In Spanish the house where you actually live is called "morada"), you can call the police and they will evict whoever is in the house in less than 24 hours. Other topic is holiday residences; those are not dwelling ("morada") so, in Spain, the right to have a dwelling is on the top of priva…

I invest in real estate in Spain and this is not true.

The description given is very similar to what I myself have seen.

What part are you saying is not true and if so what area?

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