Is there selection bias so a straight line is made by selecting the ones that fit?
Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?
141–150 of 261 posts
Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
The extra interesting wrinkle here is that each of the Burger Kings in the straight line are associated with an appearance of the Burger King himself explicitly asking for a shrine in the location, while the others are mostly random franchises stuck up by someone who decided they would like a fast food restaurant here and it might as well be a Burger King. (i. e. Mont Saint Michele the bishop who saw St. Michael orig…
That's neat! However, if each burger king was so enshrined by king burger, then there would again be nothing interesting. So, were these the only sites that were selected in that way? Second, is this a post-hoc story we told about the shrines (perhaps to avoid destruction / re-purposing by a greedy local lord?)
Put another way, if there are 10,000 shrines to this one saint around Europe, the probability that 7 will randomly be in a straight line on the Mercator projection is a lot higher than if there are <10.
Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most people aren't experts. If I'm setting up a bunch of churches in a line to make a point, I'm doing it to make a point to the vast swath of common people in them, not the handful of experts.
That's not necessarily true. I recently read Barnabas Calder's Architecture: From Prehistory to Climate Emergency which contains several mentions of the incredible detail architects put into their work- from ancient Greece through mediaeval cathedrals. Details and design which would not have been noticed by any eye but an expert's. I'll try to look up an exact quote later. But the gist of several passages was that th…
You may perhaps be interested in these two documentaries about the geometric principles that were fundamental to medieval town planning:
"Die Entdeckung der mittelalterlichen Stadtplanung" (2004): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZzEzhIGnwM
"Mittelalterliche Baukunst – Schönheit ist planbar" (2009) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQcKOkbagDc
Both documentaries are in German, but are well worth watching, even if the automatic English subtitles are sometimes a little inaccurate.
Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?
#144Are any of these actually cathedrals? I see some monasteries and sacred sites, I don't see any cathedrals in that list. The difference is that 7 cathedrals, all named after St. Michael, found in a basically straight line would certainly not be a coincidence. It would be like there being 7 Google complexes in a straight line spread around the world: something's going on here. But 7 random religious sites named after o…
- Skellig Michael: monastery, circa 6th century - St Michael's Mount: monastery, 9th century - Mont Saint-Michel: monastery & sanctuary, 708 - Sacra di San Michele: monastery, circa 983-987 - San Michele Arcangelo: sanctuary, 490 (St. Michael, supposedly did appear here) - Taxiarchi Michail: monastery, 18th century (the younger one) - Stella Maris: monastery, 1185 for the latin monastery (but in fact 15th century BCE…
Skellig Michael is plenty prestigious. It's a UNESCO heritage site and a Star Wars filming location.
Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
But only 7 of those are Cathedrals, and only those are aligned.
>.. are aligned. Only on Mercator projection that is younger than many of the sites on the line. Oder of things: 1. There were bunch of monasteries (not cathedrals), not aligned on any direct line. 2. Mercator invented a projection. 3. Someone looked at map using Mercator a projection and invented story about ley lines.
> Only on Mercator projection that is younger than many of the sites on the line.
People have been specifying locations in terms of NS/EW coordinates since the greeks. Celestial navigation ensures we always have a clear idea where north is, and when two locations are at the same latitude. It's the most natural way we've understood and discussed far-away places.
I don't think it's fair to say mercator invented this projection so much as he famously published maps which used it.
(btw, I agree this line is a complete retrospective coincidence, just not with this particular argument)
Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
But only 7 of those are Cathedrals, and only those are aligned.
>.. are aligned. Only on Mercator projection that is younger than many of the sites on the line. Oder of things: 1. There were bunch of monasteries (not cathedrals), not aligned on any direct line. 2. Mercator invented a projection. 3. Someone looked at map using Mercator a projection and invented story about ley lines.
The Mercator projection has the property that lines on it are of constant bearing. You don’t need a map projection to follow a line of constant bearing - you just need to head towards the point where the same star rises every night (mostly. Over a short enough number of nights, it works, anyway).
Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
>.. are aligned. Only on Mercator projection that is younger than many of the sites on the line. Oder of things: 1. There were bunch of monasteries (not cathedrals), not aligned on any direct line. 2. Mercator invented a projection. 3. Someone looked at map using Mercator a projection and invented story about ley lines.
> Only on Mercator projection that is younger than many of the sites on the line. People have been specifying locations in terms of NS/EW coordinates since the greeks. Celestial navigation ensures we always have a clear idea where north is, and when two locations are at the same latitude. It's the most natural way we've understood and discussed far-away places. I don't think it's fair to say mercator invented this pr…
Just like weberer you seem to think that there is only one projection of earth into 2d map.
Mercator is special projection that was not used before him. Different projections give different distortions.
Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?
#148This is why I come to HN. Fascinating investigations, perfectly executed by genius fellow hackers. Thank you.
Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?
#149> Did the builders knew the earth was round? Yes. This has been known since ancient greek times, and Aristotle calculated the size reasonably well. Maybe not every labourer knew or cared but the architects almost certainly did
Knowing the earth is round doesn’t mean you automatically consider a geodesic the most logical kind of ‘straight line’.
Mercator exists because it’s easy to navigate with. It’s easy to navigate with because it preserves bearings. Lines of constant bearing are, when you’re navigating on the ground, much more meaningfully ‘straight’ than geodesics.
‘Keep heading North West’ sounds like a pretty straight line.
Re: Saint Michael Sword: Are the cathedrals really on a straight line?
#150Are any of these actually cathedrals? I see some monasteries and sacred sites, I don't see any cathedrals in that list. The difference is that 7 cathedrals, all named after St. Michael, found in a basically straight line would certainly not be a coincidence. It would be like there being 7 Google complexes in a straight line spread around the world: something's going on here. But 7 random religious sites named after o…
Stella maris isn't even named after St. Michael