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Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

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Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#191

Post by p_l »

amunozo wrote: post #157
lukan wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like this yes. But the devil will be in the details. "pay 1% of the buildings value as property tax each year" A old rotten building might be worth just 10000€. And 100 € a year ain't that much. One would have to tax the property - and who will set up the rates in a fair way in a process that is not vulnerable to corruption?

And old rotten building sitting anywhere in a city is worth way more than 10.000€. Even if the building is not in good shape, the land is still valuable.

Many property tax systems are based around value of the building, not the land.

I think Japan is one of the outliers where pretty much all property value is locked with the land itself, as buildings depreciate not appreciate.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#192

Post by salynchnew »

StevenHarlow wrote: post #51
ssijak wrote: post #33

This is pure madness. So you have 48 hours after squatting started to report it and potentially get a fast eviction (why is it not an automatic criminal case for breaking into the property is beyond me). But after 48 hours it seems like it becomes a nightmare. So if you are on a business trip for 3 days or visiting parents in a different city or vacationing for a few days and somebody enters your home, you are out of…

I live in Spain (Valencia) and see lots of okupas around the city. In reality they occupy buildings that aren't being occupied. Property taxes are incredibly low here and many people who own empty buildings are fine with letting them sit, fall apart, and eat the property tax than do anything with them. These are the buildings that are prone to Okupas. I've never seen nor heard of it happening to actively used buildin…

Ah, so the real problem here is for people who are "squatting" on an a large number of empty investment properties and don't want the hassle of dealing with any actual tenants.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#193

Post by 4ggr0 »

Malcolmlisk wrote: post #175
ekianjo wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The government literally tells you what to eat and wear. And thank god... since without those laws we would eat the worst and toxic foods and wear toxic and low quality clothes.

> wear toxic and low quality clothes

uhm...that might be a bad example. winks towards shein, temu, fast fashion in general

and thinking for a bit longer - corn syrup/sugar in general is not toxic but it certainly is not that healthy either, and it's got big lobbies and large amounts of money behind it to influence the government.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#194

Post by dr__mario »

peter335 wrote: post #167
dr__mario wrote: post #144

"The rise of okupation"... but they make no references to data. Here is the data (in Spanish) [1]. The difference between trespassing (that somebody enters in the house you live) and usurpation (the house is yours but is not where you live) is very important. Both problems are way less prevalent than what appears on the media (see [1]), but trespassing is waaay lower (and as the owner you have better mechanisms to re…

If you make it financially risky to own a rental property you're also making it more risky and thus less profitable to buy and rent out apartments. This hurts both renters and the potential landlords. It would be much better to just increase property taxes.. Speaking as a Dane, this kind kind of economically illiterate leftist lawlessness is an important reason why Spain is poorer both poorer and has a worse welfare…

Ok, but first: is it financially risky right now to own properties? No, based on the data we have.

Second: can renters be hurt even more? Are landlords the most vulnerable people right now? The situation is pretty awful right now, while at the same time there are people whose sole contribution to society is "owning flats".

And I agree on increasing property taxes (any progressive taxes over capital would do).

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#195

Post by pnut »

ssijak wrote: post #33

This is pure madness. So you have 48 hours after squatting started to report it and potentially get a fast eviction (why is it not an automatic criminal case for breaking into the property is beyond me). But after 48 hours it seems like it becomes a nightmare. So if you are on a business trip for 3 days or visiting parents in a different city or vacationing for a few days and somebody enters your home, you are out of…

I don't get it.

You have keys to the place. There's no written contract, no money changing hands.

Show up with some muscle, chuck the losers out on the street and change the locks.

What are they going to do, take you to court?

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#196

Post by gotbeans »

reify wrote: post #84

Squatters cannot break into your home and take residence. They can only enter if you leave a window or door open for them to enter. If they break-in that is a criminal offence and the police will treat it as a buglary and arrest those in the property. I used to squat here on Airstrip One in my twenties when I was homeless. We did not squat in homes where people lived, We squatted in empty properties. The utilities co…

>I dont see anything wrong with squatting in empty homes.

Do you care if the owner cares about you squatting in his property?

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#197

Post by dr__mario »

dr__mario wrote: post #194
peter335 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make it financially risky to own a rental property you're also making it more risky and thus less profitable to buy and rent out apartments. This hurts both renters and the potential landlords. It would be much better to just increase property taxes.. Speaking as a Dane, this kind kind of economically illiterate leftist lawlessness is an important reason why Spain is poorer both poorer and has a worse welfare…

Ok, but first: is it financially risky right now to own properties? No, based on the data we have. Second: can renters be hurt even more? Are landlords the most vulnerable people right now? The situation is pretty awful right now, while at the same time there are people whose sole contribution to society is "owning flats". And I agree on increasing property taxes (any progressive taxes over capital would do).

BTW, I'd love to recommend a book that explains all this much better than I would do. Unfortunately, I think it's only in Spanish: "La España de las piscinas" (The Spain of Swimming Pools).

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#198

Post by 4ggr0 »

johngladtj wrote: post #189
reify wrote: post #84

Squatters cannot break into your home and take residence. They can only enter if you leave a window or door open for them to enter. If they break-in that is a criminal offence and the police will treat it as a buglary and arrest those in the property. I used to squat here on Airstrip One in my twenties when I was homeless. We did not squat in homes where people lived, We squatted in empty properties. The utilities co…

[flagged]

In a lot of cases the analogy should be "you wouldn't even notice if someone stole cash out of your 3rd wallet which you leave on a table in a random place and didn't use for a long time because your first two wallets are enough."

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#199

Post by juststartguide »

erremerre wrote: post #176
Malcolmlisk wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. Your first and second house are protected by the law. If someone enters in your first or second house when you are outside, they will get expelled in the same moment the police arrives, and they will face criminal consecuences. The problem comes when you have 200 houses and somebody squats one of those where you don't live and you don't use. A problem for the banks, vulture funds and big renters. An…

Do not forget to mention that every news tv program is sponsored by Alarms companies. That the banks, the phone companies, are sponsored and sell alarms. Which potentially, might have something to do, which so much does this situation appears on news in comparison to other problems the country has.

Thank you for acknowledging it. It's crazy to see how there's at least 1 alarm ad whenever there is a news piece about Okupation.

Most of the occupied apartments belong to banks and big renters who would rather see the building fall apart than offering the apartments for a reasonable price/rent.

The problem for citizens isn't that they're losing their apartments/houses to Okupas, since that's a really small minority. The real problem is that some Okupas do it "professionally" for profit and can be quite violent.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#200

Post by juststartguide »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #153
nephanth wrote: post #106

I mean from a justice standpoint, squatting is wrong But from a societal standpoint, the laws being this way have a bunch of positive externalities 1. It provides shelter to the homeless, with all the advantages we know that has 2. It provides an incentive to not leave property vacant. Very important in a country with high vacancy rates 1nd a hiusing crisis. Note also that this is done at the expense of investors. Wh…

A middle class family that leaves their home for 2 weeks to go on vacation only to come back to find their apartment occupied? Are those the evil investors who should be punished? Now they are homeless instead

A common misconception that people don't seem to get (and that most news outlets conveniently forget to report), it's that if someone enters your primary or even second residence, that isn't considered Okupacion, it's considered "Allanamiento de morada" (breaking and entering). Even if you were on vacation for a month.

If that happens you call the police and they'll kick them out in 24 hours max.

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