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Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

haaretz.com

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#581

Post by Hikikomori »

refulgentis wrote: post #504
Hikikomori wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its bad because if Palestinians agree with the attack then they can be collectively punished, that's usually what comes after showing those polls. How many in Ireland supported IRA? Should UK have bombed them as well? Did Israel provide evidence that UNRWA supports Hamas? If so why did many countries reinstate aid to UNRWA? Israel may have left Gaza but they still control all their borders and airspace, even the Egyp…

Gently: I think there's a better way to phrase this, and you still have time to edit. It's strong but once you're at paragraph 4....once you're "saying propaganda war/colonialist/apartheid/you're in a propaganda bubble".........let me start again. We all have agency, and denying agency/telling someone they're in a bubble and not able to think for themselves, is one of the easiest ways for them to ignore your invitati…

Fair. I'm just tired of people running interference for Israels genocide.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#582

Post by jonathankoren »

revnode wrote: post #467
jonathankoren wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you get these ideas? Yes, Filipinos did vote for a territorial government as laid out in the Philippine Organic Act of 1902. Yes, Puerto Ricans vote. It's a territory. They have their own devolved government.

At no point did Filipinos have the ability to vote for Senators, Congressmen, or the President. Same for Puerto Ricans. US has other territories too, by the way, with the same restrictions. You have no problem calling the US a democracy, but when the same rules are applied elsewhere you have a problem?

Nothing like moving the goal posts, conflating a whole bunch of different issues, and then projecting statements on to me when you’re called out nonsense.

Hope that works out for you.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#583

Post by halflife »

lenerdenator wrote: post #148
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel seems to only extend that sort of courtesy to a part of its citizenry There have been over 100 Arabs in the Israeli parliament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Kn...

Good for them. But if you're Arab Israeli, you don't have the same slate of rights and representation that Jewish Israelis have. See: freedom of movement to and from the Gaza Strip prior to October 7th.

Arabs has 100% the same rights as Israelis. The freedom of movements to Gaza was not allowed to Jews as well (or every Israeli), since this is an enemy territory.

So I challenge you to find 1 law that treats Jews and Arab citizens differently in Israel

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#584

Post by tzs »

burkaman wrote: post #445
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a question of my own. Is there another country whose citizens are regularly elected to Congress? Dual citizens are not barred from holding office in Congress, and certainly there are more than a few English Americans and French Americans who hold citizens in both respective countries, but I have never heard of any winning office (or even running, for that matter).

It is relatively common for people born outside the US to be elected to Congress ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign-born_United_St... , https://www.senate.gov/senators/Foreign_born.htm ), but there is no requirement to publicly disclose dual citizenship. Ted Cruz and Michelle Bachmann are the most famous examples of holding dual citizenship during a congressional career, there may be more examples that I…

Ted Cruz says he did not know he was a dual citizen. He said he assumed that because he was a US citizen by birth, left Canada at 4 and lived entirely in the US and never took affirmative steps to claim Canadian citizenship he was not a Canadian citizen.

When a newspaper brought it up he went through the steps to formally renounce Canadian citizenship, which became official in May 2014.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#585

Post by torpid »

bostik wrote: post #275
dfxm12 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Manufacturing Consent" was written in the 80s mostly in response to newspapers, but the ideas have been adapted to the Internet for some time (and talk radio, and cable news, etc.). I'm old enough to remember this from the Iraq war. Yeah, we didn't have microblogging back then, but there were Email campaigns, blogs, message boards, chat rooms, etc.

And let's keep in mind that the term "Public Relations" was explicitly chosen as a Newspeak-term because Edward Bernays realised that the actual term for a war time methodology, "propaganda", was too loaded.[0] And honest. Internet is a communications medium. It was destined to be flooded with propaganda, whatever you try to call your particular flavour. Or as I have been saying since the 1990's, the only difference…

The Century of the Self documentary by Adam Curtis does an incredible job of covering that and is well-worth the watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnPmg0R1M04

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#586

Post by hehdhdjehehegwv »

revnode wrote: post #512
lupire wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people of PR voted against becoming a State.

And if they hadn't, would that make the US less of a democratic republic? Not relevant. Also, see Guam, US Virgin Islands, etc who didn't vote for anything.

It’s incredibly relevant as there has yet to be an election if people in Palestine want to be a part of Israel.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#587

Post by defrost »

trogdor wrote: post #411
netsharc wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brain just came up with the phrase "You can't spell propaganda without PR", which I think is clever. But I'm going to put it into a search engine now and see that it's not original...

You also can’t spell propaganda without pagan. I wonder what that means.

That once again, as always it seems, no one is talking about the Panda Gap.

Literally the raison d'etre of PR | propaganda is to distract, to replace, to (in modern terms) throw a dead cat on the table and have everybody talk about that.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#588

Post by hehdhdjehehegwv »

edanm wrote: post #403
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an argument to be made that if the Palestinians have to ask permission to become a real state from Israel, then their "government" isn't really a government, and that all the Palestinians are in thrall to Tel Aviv, a government which rules them but does not represent them, whose laws bind them but for whom they may not vote.

There is such a valid argument. But the Oslo accords officially created the PA, which rules over the Palestinians in the West Bank. And Gaza is ruled by Hamas. The Palestinians are governed by a mix of Israeli military law and PA laws, which originate from Jordan, I believe. Some argue that in practice, Israel has control over all the Palestinians, so in practice there is one large apartheid state. I don't believe th…

And Bibi supported and kept Hamas in power so Israeli society could labor under the delusion that keeping Palestinians out of sight and out of mind was a viable plan. Until it wasn’t.

He’s been elected again and again, and has been steadfast in preventing self governance from ever taking hold. To the degree Israel is a “democracy” it is because there is voter consensus that there can be no Palestinian self rule.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#589

Post by burnished »

oddtuple wrote: post #414
sir0010010 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you read the guide that dang linked to, it is clear that the account is breaking the rules for flamebait.

I have read the guide, although i appreciate reaffirming it as the source of truth. What’s hard is from a glance at the posters history their comments don’t seem to break the guidelines, but instead fall into the camp of spirited (albeit strongly so) opinions. Are there specific comments made that weren’t in the spirit of the guidelines? It feels “primarily for ideological purposes” is hard to counter in a discussion…

The point is the pattern (I think the person you are responding to is incorrect about flamebait), you'd go look at the topic of their most recent comments - if the vast majority of interactions are to argue X then that seems to fall under 'idealogical battle'.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#590

Post by doubloon »

Kapura wrote: post #74
cjk2 wrote: post #70

Well their enemies used social accounts to garner support from US citizens so you've got to start somewhere! It's not like we haven't done this either. I worked for a company in 2005 which was doing this paid for by politicians. Moment I worked this out, I quit.

This seems extremely unethical no matter who is doing it.

during a war against an existential threat, propaganda is not unethical, its a duty and is to be expected.

i dont know of a single country that wouldnt do the same in their position.

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