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Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

haaretz.com

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#121

Post by The_Colonel »

laweijfmvo wrote: post #64
partiallypro wrote: post #31

I'm sure the story is true, but I doubt it was effective. I don't think most politicians are really looking at their social media given most of it is trolling junk. I'm sure Russia/Iran/Hamas adjacent countries were doing the same. I just don't think they have been that effective in getting politician support. Direct lobbying or phone/email is much more effective than an online troll farm to get the attention of a po…

One thing I've learned about old people (and in the US, the people in charge are _OLD_) is that they have no concept of being scammed like this. So they may recognize trolling, but if you tell them "Hey, the President of Israel tweeted at you," they just assume it was the President of Israel.

So the logic is something like this:

* my grandmother can't recognize fake information

* my grandmother is old

* politicians are old

* therefore politicians can't recognize fake information

Politics has always been full of deception, people doing politics professionally for decades should know a bit or two about it.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#122

Post by somenameforme »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #17
germinalphrase wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Espionage/propaganda/public relations/influence campaigns are hardly new. Social media is just a new flavor to go along with the others.

I do think the economy is different. You've always been able to just hire a bunch of thugs to stage an event to shape the narrative, like old-school cold war style. That takes money and effort and a modicum of skill and the risk of being caught with your pants down is not negligible. Difference today is you can stoke the flames of public outrage with just a few people, without even setting foot in the country, while…

This seems reasonable, but it runs into a little problem. If you engage in political discussion anywhere on the internet, the first thing you'll find is that people, if they have formed an opinion, have exactly 0 interest in changing their mind. If you already hold a genuine and internally formed view on e.g. the Israel - Palestine conflict, then even if somebody sat you (or me) in front of 24/7 propaganda for the other side, they'd be unlikely to ever change either of our minds.

Propaganda only seems to work in two situations. The first is on topics people know nothing about. Each time the US invades some places most people couldn't even find on a map, support for it rises in accordance with the propaganda. But as people learn more, and gradually form their own values, that support tends to rapidly decline. And there are also long-term consequences, because people will remember being lied to. My views on the US war machine and geopolitics in general seem unlikely, at this point, to ever change. And they were largely formed due to the Iraq War. Irrefutable [1] and Undeniable [2] are two 21 year old articles I still go back to on occasion.

The other situation is when it's true. During the Cold War we spread endless propaganda about things like having stocked store shelves. This is doubly effective in the same way that lying propaganda is doubly ineffective. Because not only does it create a desired perception, but once people gradually find out it's really true, it also tends to turn them against their own government who invariably misrepresents such situations. Again, people don't like being lied to.

[1] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2003/02/06/i...

[2] - https://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/06/opinion/irrefutable-and-u...

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#123

Post by nerdjon »

I find it quite concerning just how much propaganda the US seems to get from Israel. Where I live there are big billboards around, I regularly see ads on YouTube.

I know propaganda is a thing, but it feels like we are getting more about a foreign government than our own.

I feel like before what is going on now I was aware of some of the groups responsible for this being a thing, but was not fully aware just how much money there was in it those organizations until recently.

Some of the practices are concerning, like I found out recently apparently the Boston police regularly go over to Israel for training?

Regardless of what is going on right now, I don't understand how this much power over the US was ever deemed acceptable?

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#124

Post by sekai »

runarberg wrote: post #30
SkipperCat wrote: post #4

Not a comment about who's right or wrong in this war, but it is fascinating that we have entered the age of the Internet being a place where warfare is fought. There have always been people posting web content about conflicts but now with Gaza and Ukraine, it seems that the nations fighting are actively looking at the internet as the fourth field of battle. Just waiting for a random US future president to create an "…

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#125

Post by WhackyIdeas »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #98
runarberg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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You’re right about there being other genocides.

But the difference here is that for many in the West, they are seeing their own participation in it (ie USA, UK) with the Germans giving morale support for it. All those American Boeing-made missiles ripping apart and burning alive those little hungry toddlers camping outside in their cold tents… it tends to make people reflect a little more.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#127

Post by kergonath »

michaeljhg wrote: post #102

Is there a country that doesn't do this?

So, enlighten us: is there? Any example of this sort of things between allies? Or is this just an extreme case of both-sides?

Spying and keeping tabs on your friends is one thing. Influence campaigns among close allies are generally not the way it works.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#128

Post by complianceowl »

cjk2 wrote: post #92
anigbrowl wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We entered that some time ago; or rather, the Internet accelerates the use of such information operations. This is (imho) why Musk bought Twitter.

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#129

Post by throw310822 »

wonderwonder wrote: post #55
greenavocado wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many congressmen are dual citizens with Israeli citizenship? This is even worse. Also, AIPAC is allowed to exist . As a thought experiment replace Israeli with Russian citizenship for the Israeli dual citizens in Congress and replace AIPAC with a hypothetical Russian ARPAC. Imagine how crazy this would be. Yet the current situation is somehow completely acceptable.

"How many congressmen are dual citizens with Israeli citizenship" By this do you mean Jews? Should be prevent Jewish people from being allowed in congress? "AIPAC is allowed to exist" Should we prevent it from existing becuase it supports a Jewish state? You have no issue with the hundreds of other lobbying groups, just the jewish one.

It's not Jewish, it's pro-Israel (American Israel Public Affair Committee). Israel is a foreign country whose interests might be conflicting with those of the US. That's different, don't you think?

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#130

Post by cempaka »

nerdjon wrote: post #123

I find it quite concerning just how much propaganda the US seems to get from Israel. Where I live there are big billboards around, I regularly see ads on YouTube. I know propaganda is a thing, but it feels like we are getting more about a foreign government than our own. I feel like before what is going on now I was aware of some of the groups responsible for this being a thing, but was not fully aware just how much…

The best part is when it comes from our own "newspaper of record" i.e. with the extraordinarily dubious "mass rape" article the NYT published. They finally dismissed the one Israel-connected reporter who had liked tweets calling for a brutal response against Gaza, but that of course has seen about one billionth the attention that her original claims continue to receive.

You also get stuff like the POTUS repeating lies like "40 beheaded babies" and "a mother and child had kerosene poured on them" with none of the usual media freakout you usually see over "misinformation."

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