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Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

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Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#71

Post by panarky »

StevenHarlow wrote: post #51
ssijak wrote: post #33

This is pure madness. So you have 48 hours after squatting started to report it and potentially get a fast eviction (why is it not an automatic criminal case for breaking into the property is beyond me). But after 48 hours it seems like it becomes a nightmare. So if you are on a business trip for 3 days or visiting parents in a different city or vacationing for a few days and somebody enters your home, you are out of…

I live in Spain (Valencia) and see lots of okupas around the city. In reality they occupy buildings that aren't being occupied. Property taxes are incredibly low here and many people who own empty buildings are fine with letting them sit, fall apart, and eat the property tax than do anything with them. These are the buildings that are prone to Okupas. I've never seen nor heard of it happening to actively used buildin…

What's madness is the state allowing property owners to leave vacant, dilapidated buildings to blight the neighborhood. Owners should be required to maintain their structures and keep them occupied, or forfeit the property.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#72

Post by prmoustache »

pc86 wrote: post #65
mijamo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is obviously not accurate. The 48h delay is not 48h after squatters entered the place, but 48h after you DISCOVERED them. And after those 48h you will still get your property back, just much more slowly because it is just not considered an emergency anymore if you discover a problem and don't signal it immediately. If you go on vacation for 3 weeks, discover squatters when you come back and can prove you are the…

Well most people aren't criminals so no I don't think "everyone would be squatting houses all the time" is accurate under any realistic scenario. What happens if the police don't respond? You discover them at the beginning of a long holiday weekend? It's a second residence and you discover them as you open the door to let your family stay there? The mental gymnastics people will go through to try to justify someone b…

They are not criminals if the law says they are not.

They are definitely delinquents, but calling that a crime is a stretch, no lives are at risks.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#73

Post by [deleted] »

ssijak wrote: post #33

This is pure madness. So you have 48 hours after squatting started to report it and potentially get a fast eviction (why is it not an automatic criminal case for breaking into the property is beyond me). But after 48 hours it seems like it becomes a nightmare. So if you are on a business trip for 3 days or visiting parents in a different city or vacationing for a few days and somebody enters your home, you are out of…

[deleted]

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#74

Post by giantg2 »

diggan wrote: post #66
giantg2 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for that info! So why is this such a big problem? Is it just that the government doesn't want to trust it's own records? If people are bypassing the law, I would think it reasonable to allow the consequences to transpire - eg evicted if you don't have a written contract.

If you read through the article, it becomes a bit clearer exactly why it still happens.

I saw some of the different factors in the article but none of them seemed to really address the lack of checking a registered source of data for the leases and why they wouldn't be a good idea.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#75

Post by giantg2 »

ggpsv wrote: post #69
giantg2 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for that info! So why is this such a big problem? Is it just that the government doesn't want to trust it's own records? If people are bypassing the law, I would think it reasonable to allow the consequences to transpire - eg evicted if you don't have a written contract.

As mentioned in other comments by Spaniards weighing in, it's not really a big problem as in that's happening all the time. It is a multi-faceted issue, and for some, a philosophical standpoint stemming from the economic crisis, gentrification and speculation, and related problems. Take in mind that the post shared here is written by a company that provides listing services. Housing is more of a right in Spain than i…

Ah, I see. The article was claiming it was "surging", but I guess it's hyperbolic advertising.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#76

Post by diggan »

spaniard89277 wrote: post #70
ssijak wrote: post #33

This is pure madness. So you have 48 hours after squatting started to report it and potentially get a fast eviction (why is it not an automatic criminal case for breaking into the property is beyond me). But after 48 hours it seems like it becomes a nightmare. So if you are on a business trip for 3 days or visiting parents in a different city or vacationing for a few days and somebody enters your home, you are out of…

This problem will only grow because there's an increasingly large number of people in Spain unable to rent. At this very moment the profile of squatters is diverse, but with such large pockets of spaniards staying just above of the poverty line, many people will be forced between squatting or just become homeless. Just for reference, I live in a flat in a building from the 50s. Very poor insulation, 5º with no elevat…

> Can anyone tell me how is exactly this going to work out? Not to mention all the "expats" and "digital nomads" that are willing to pay whatever the landlord says because they really really want to live here without thinking about the consequences, but that's another story.

Slowly, more regulation is added to get the problem somewhat under control. Rents capped by index, annual rent increases cap, introduction of "tense housing markets", new upkeep for vacant properties, bonuses for renting out to younger people and more are being introduced, at least here in Catalunya. Unsure exactly what of those things are on the national level but guessing something similar is being introduced elsewhere in the country if it isn't already.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#77

Post by bramblerose »

giantg2 wrote: post #49
diggan wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always, there are always multiple sides to any issue. Another commentator put it better than I could: > The reasoning behind this is that some shady landlords might try to claim that genuine tenants are squatters in order to get rid of them. There are plenty of desperate people who'd accept a verbal contract and payment in cash, after all. Not that hard of a choice when the alternative is being homeless. Oh, but y…

"Making it too easy to get rid of squatters would expose the most vulnerable people in society to even more abuse, and making it trickier for absentee landlords to get rid of real squatters is considered a fair price to prevent this." Except this is poorly thought out and not really true. You can provide better protection for both sides by requiring written and recorded contracts for real property use/rental, just as…

So what happens when the law requires a contract yet the landlord doesn't offer a contract and simply collects the rent?

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#78

Post by spaniard89277 »

diggan wrote: post #76
spaniard89277 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This problem will only grow because there's an increasingly large number of people in Spain unable to rent. At this very moment the profile of squatters is diverse, but with such large pockets of spaniards staying just above of the poverty line, many people will be forced between squatting or just become homeless. Just for reference, I live in a flat in a building from the 50s. Very poor insulation, 5º with no elevat…

> Can anyone tell me how is exactly this going to work out? Not to mention all the "expats" and "digital nomads" that are willing to pay whatever the landlord says because they really really want to live here without thinking about the consequences, but that's another story. Slowly, more regulation is added to get the problem somewhat under control. Rents capped by index, annual rent increases cap, introduction of "t…

I don't think that helps honestly. What would help IMO is a lot of new housing close to jobs where foreigners can't apply. Because no matter how much you build, if someone from overseas is going to say "I pay double of whatever you've been offered" I can't compete.

And I know that's happening because my Gf has to work with this sort of people, sadly.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#79

Post by hichamdoe »

violent_answer wrote: post #60
anticorporate wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government's job is to house its citizens. It sounds like the people are already organizing their own solutions to this.

[flagged]

In Spain it is a mandate from our Constitution (https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-2014-375#:~:text=....) to ensure and facilitate to citizens their right of roof.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#80

Post by ggpsv »

giantg2 wrote: post #75
ggpsv wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As mentioned in other comments by Spaniards weighing in, it's not really a big problem as in that's happening all the time. It is a multi-faceted issue, and for some, a philosophical standpoint stemming from the economic crisis, gentrification and speculation, and related problems. Take in mind that the post shared here is written by a company that provides listing services. Housing is more of a right in Spain than i…

Ah, I see. The article was claiming it was "surging", but I guess it's hyperbolic advertising.

You'll understand the inevitable tension on policing this issue considering that a couple of years ago Spain passed a law that made access to adequate and dignified housing a constitutional right.
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