Idealista arguing on the ethics of squatting it's like Exxon fighting against pollution or Trump talking against bribery.
I've seen war trenches which seemed more liveable than the average racoon hole rented at Idealista.
Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
61–70 of 930 posts
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#62This is pure madness. So you have 48 hours after squatting started to report it and potentially get a fast eviction (why is it not an automatic criminal case for breaking into the property is beyond me). But after 48 hours it seems like it becomes a nightmare. So if you are on a business trip for 3 days or visiting parents in a different city or vacationing for a few days and somebody enters your home, you are out of…
In reality most cases of squatting are financial assets that property owners have no plan to rent to anyone. In an area where housing space that people can afford are very few and far between, nbuying properties for the sole purpose of speculation can be seen on a similar level of unethicality as occupying a space you don't own.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#63One thing I don't get -- if the law doesn't help why don't the owners of these properties release fart spray everywhere and turn the heat up to max until it is unlivable?
The owners can hire contractors that will go to the property in order to help 'determine the conditions' under which the squatters will leave. My understanding is that it's usually a balance of physical intimidation and financial incentive.
I have seen this happen with a building across the street from where I lived. There were 5 large men who could have easily been bouncers in Oakland outside with "FueraOkupa" shirts. The woman left later that day.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#64One thing I don't get -- if the law doesn't help why don't the owners of these properties release fart spray everywhere and turn the heat up to max until it is unlivable?
Well that does happen. It happened around me with a few houses that are empty during the winter (whatever you think of that): the squatters got refused service in the town by the bars, restaurants and super markets. People would accidentally walk into them so they would fall over. Every one drives straight at them when they walk only to correct at the last moment and shout profanities at them. People spit on them and say it’s the wind, throw hot coffee on them saying it’s an accident etc. Until they leave; you think the policia or guardia that has their familia living their all their lives and are probably family of the occupied houses is going to file anything? Didn’t take long two times it happened.
Of course in less close knit communities it would be different; a third time was the house of an english bloke who only came over for the summer; they put all his stuff outside in the rain in the winter, made a weed grow place out of it and until they had proof of the weed, they couldn’t get them out. House was completely fucked when they got it back including the furniture which was outside all winter. Squatting is one thing and you could agree with it, but this shit is insane. And trying to get them doesn’t work as they clearly don’t have money to begin with.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#65Oh wow I thought only France has squatting problem. here the squatters can legally occupy your place for 48 hours, and if that's your only place and you went away on vacation tough luck buddy, they can shit on the floor and tear the walls down Good luck getting your money/property back
This is obviously not accurate. The 48h delay is not 48h after squatters entered the place, but 48h after you DISCOVERED them. And after those 48h you will still get your property back, just much more slowly because it is just not considered an emergency anymore if you discover a problem and don't signal it immediately. If you go on vacation for 3 weeks, discover squatters when you come back and can prove you are the…
Well most people aren't criminals so no I don't think "everyone would be squatting houses all the time" is accurate under any realistic scenario.
What happens if the police don't respond? You discover them at the beginning of a long holiday weekend? It's a second residence and you discover them as you open the door to let your family stay there?
The mental gymnastics people will go through to try to justify someone breaking & entering and trespassing on someone else's private property is insane. They are criminals and should be treated as such, regardless of when you find them, regardless of whether you report it immediately or take a few days to try to reason with them or not.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is how it actually works in Spain. You must present the contract when you legally register as a citizen in the city's town hall. That doesn't stop people from circumventing this requirement, on either side of the contract.
Thanks for that info! So why is this such a big problem? Is it just that the government doesn't want to trust it's own records? If people are bypassing the law, I would think it reasonable to allow the consequences to transpire - eg evicted if you don't have a written contract.
If you read through the article, it becomes a bit clearer exactly why it still happens.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#67This is bullshit. I'm dev from Barcelona (Catalonia, Spain) and the squatting topic is periodically being pumped up by the same dumb bastards (always the same companies and media). Squatting exists at the city but it is not an issue in the daily lifes of Barcelona and Spain citizens, only for the fucking big owners with more than 10 flats each. Squatting happens because this bastards (big owners) are inflating the fl…
Does Spain have any affordable housing or non market housing efforts to keep units out of the hands of market owners?
Nothing real, only empty promises from politicians. They say they are working on it, but I'm sure that it is not going to happen in short term.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
> why don't the owners of these properties release fart spray everywhere and turn the heat up to max until it is unlivable? If the okupas have been there for longer than 48 hours without you trying to get rid of them, doing something like that could be considered harassment and/or endangering the occupants' health, so you'd probably face criminal charges for it. You're not allowed to alter the living conditions to fo…
What if your house already had fart spray releasers in the first place because you "love the smell", and your thermostat was "broken" in the first place? When you live there you know how to "fix" them but otherwise you are not obligated to fix them.
You are living in pure fantasy. The squatters would simply fix the thermostats and disconnect the sprays.
The buildings are occupied because the owner do not live there. Squatters target housings that are left empty by owners who are just speculating on the market.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is how it actually works in Spain. You must present the contract when you legally register as a citizen in the city's town hall. That doesn't stop people from circumventing this requirement, on either side of the contract.
Thanks for that info! So why is this such a big problem? Is it just that the government doesn't want to trust it's own records? If people are bypassing the law, I would think it reasonable to allow the consequences to transpire - eg evicted if you don't have a written contract.
As mentioned in other comments by Spaniards weighing in, it's not really a big problem as in that's happening all the time.
It is a multi-faceted issue, and for some, a philosophical standpoint stemming from the economic crisis, gentrification and speculation, and related problems.
Take in mind that the post shared here is written by a company that provides listing services.
Housing is more of a right in Spain than in other countries, and at least in Catalonia, there is precedent that it supersedes property rights.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#70This is pure madness. So you have 48 hours after squatting started to report it and potentially get a fast eviction (why is it not an automatic criminal case for breaking into the property is beyond me). But after 48 hours it seems like it becomes a nightmare. So if you are on a business trip for 3 days or visiting parents in a different city or vacationing for a few days and somebody enters your home, you are out of…
This problem will only grow because there's an increasingly large number of people in Spain unable to rent.
At this very moment the profile of squatters is diverse, but with such large pockets of spaniards staying just above of the poverty line, many people will be forced between squatting or just become homeless.
Just for reference, I live in a flat in a building from the 50s. Very poor insulation, 5º with no elevator, etc. I pay 475€ for it (small sized city), I've been living here for +5 years.
The guys in the 3rd floor came in recently. They pay 1100€ for basically the same flat.
The modal income in this city is 16k. I work on IT and I'm barely above 20k (well, was, as I'm now unemployed).
I go for the listings and there's almost nothing listed and everything is > 800€/month. If I increase the range to 1h from any potential job location it goes down to ~500 for shitty places. Also, not precisely a lot to choose from, so probably wouldn't be able to rent neither.
Can anyone tell me how is exactly this going to work out? Not to mention all the "expats" and "digital nomads" that are willing to pay whatever the landlord says because they really really want to live here without thinking about the consequences, but that's another story.
Of course buying is totally out of the question with the current prices, and that's me that I got lucky, with the new prices no one will be able to save anymore.