Live data from Hacker News

Don't be terrified of Pale Fire

unherd.com

51–60 of 166 posts

Re: Don't be terrified of Pale Fire

#51
post #15

Is this a "Bookworm's book?" Much like a "skier's mountain" or a "band's band," is this the kind of book that only appeals to a narrow audience that likes to pick apart the mechanics of a book? Or is this a book like Harry Potter, which was panned by the critics, but otherwise is awesome popular fiction?

The former. Tankers full of literary ink have been spilled on this book.

Re: Don't be terrified of Pale Fire

#52
post #32

When people recommend Russian literature I'm always curious what they think about the other great Russian literary works. Because I find unnecessary complexity unbearable. I have no desire to read literature with 100+ named characters, unreliable narrators and Escher-like chronology. For some people narrative complexity is a draw but if I can't put a book down and come back to it two weeks later without having to sta…

Pushkin’s short fiction is often great (if uneven, especially the early stuff) and doesn’t (can’t) do the 1,000 characters and complex chronology thing.

Re: Don't be terrified of Pale Fire

#53
post #32

When people recommend Russian literature I'm always curious what they think about the other great Russian literary works. Because I find unnecessary complexity unbearable. I have no desire to read literature with 100+ named characters, unreliable narrators and Escher-like chronology. For some people narrative complexity is a draw but if I can't put a book down and come back to it two weeks later without having to sta…

While I understand your point of view, and even share it from time to time, if art were limited to those works that were easily accessible, the world would be much poorer for it.

Think of how different the world would be if all Beethoven composed were Für Elise-type pieces, and he never composed anything as complex--and inaccessible--as his Grosse Fuge.

In my experience, my favorite books have been the ones that required me to work a little.

Re: Don't be terrified of Pale Fire

#54
post #35
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true but in this case the noun and verb forms of refrain have distinct meanings and come into English from different sources: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/refrain#word-hist... It's don't think I've ever read refrained used this way. I wonder if she was thinking "reframed"?

Why did they have to flag it? This was an interesting discussion.

We’re on HN, people flag anything that has the slightest hint of a challenge

Re: Don't be terrified of Pale Fire

#55

"I am the shadow of the waxwing slain By the false azure in the windowpane I am the smudge of ashen fluff And I lived on, flew on, in the reflected sky" I am ashamed that I will never command my native language as well as a man for whom it was a second. I don't even know if whom is right there.

Nabokov's family was trilingual and he could read and write English before he could Russian. It wasn't really a second language to him.

Re: Don't be terrified of Pale Fire

#56
post #17

I have not yet read Pale Fire, but I loved Lolita and hope to read it soon. Nabokov's writing is so rich, the writing itself (aside from the story!) is worth lingering over and savoring. I've only found a few other writers with a similar quality - Proust, Milton, perhaps Cormac McCarthy and Toni Morrison. Does anyone know of authors with a similar property? I'm not even sure what to call it, so it's difficult to sear…

I would check out John Crowley, starting with Little, Big. One of the great American prose stylists.

Hilary Mantel is very good. I haven't read the Wolf Hall books, but A Place of Greater Safety is beautiful and deserves to be better known.

I would also nominate Gene Wolfe, especially The Book of the Sun. Fits very well with the subject matter of Nabokov, as it is also a clever metatextual puzzle, albeit a very different kind.

Re: Don't be terrified of Pale Fire

#57
post #22
post #15

Is this a "Bookworm's book?" Much like a "skier's mountain" or a "band's band," is this the kind of book that only appeals to a narrow audience that likes to pick apart the mechanics of a book? Or is this a book like Harry Potter, which was panned by the critics, but otherwise is awesome popular fiction?

The 'hook' of Pale Fire is this: ostensibly you're reading a long-form poem with a foreword and footnotes and editing by a friend of the poet (a poet of some eminence), but it soon becomes apparent that the editor is trying to jam his own life story into those footnotes. If you like that idea, I think you'd like the book.

Another interesting variant of "annotations are the star" is "But What of Earth?" by Piers Anthony. It's an old school sort of sci fi story, but the publisher rewrote it in the publishing process. Eventually Anthony got the rights back and published the first draft with the editor's changes and his commentary on it. I think it was intended to be commentary on the publishing business, but as a way of knowing an author, you come away feeling like you know the guy in a way you don't get from carefully crafted stories.

It's one of those old paperbacks I know I wouldn't have tossed, but darned if I can find my copy to reread. Maybe I loaned it and it found a new home. Maybe you have it.

(Do remember, he is a 55 year old man writing this in the '80s. Some of his world view is… archaic?… in the greater society today.)

You want the Tor version from 1989, not the Laser version from 1976.

Re: Don't be terrified of Pale Fire

#58
post #32

When people recommend Russian literature I'm always curious what they think about the other great Russian literary works. Because I find unnecessary complexity unbearable. I have no desire to read literature with 100+ named characters, unreliable narrators and Escher-like chronology. For some people narrative complexity is a draw but if I can't put a book down and come back to it two weeks later without having to sta…

Read Solzhenitsyn or Bulgakov (earlier works like Heart of a Dog, not MM)

Re: Don't be terrified of Pale Fire

#59
post #32

When people recommend Russian literature I'm always curious what they think about the other great Russian literary works. Because I find unnecessary complexity unbearable. I have no desire to read literature with 100+ named characters, unreliable narrators and Escher-like chronology. For some people narrative complexity is a draw but if I can't put a book down and come back to it two weeks later without having to sta…

Admittedly The Brothers Karamazov has a lot of characters, but, it does run linearly! And it's not so hard to refer to the Wikipedia article for a character list as necessary. I think the problem is some people expect to not have to do any work when reading literary novels.

I find that literature that requires work does not provide more food or insight into the human condition or a sense of wonder (or whichever benchmark you choose) than simpler and more accessible works. If complexity is not what makes the work valuable, what purpose does it serve? I posit that for some people complexity for the sake of complexity _is_ the appeal.

Re: Don't be terrified of Pale Fire

#60
post #20

This is hilarious. I bought the book after watching Blade Runner 2049. There's a scene where some of book was being recited as part of the protagonist's anti-empathy test and I figured it had to have a deeper importance to the writers so I grabbed it on a whim. It's been sitting on my shelf. Now I'll have to move it up the list after seeing this.

The book is also in the film - joi offers to read it to k in their first scene I think. Another cool reference there is K’s ringtone is Prokofiev’s Peter and the Wolf which every soviet kid should recognize from their childhood
Post reply on HN