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Raspberry Pi impressions: the $35 Linux computer and tinker toy

engadget.com

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Re: Raspberry Pi impressions: the $35 Linux computer and tinker toy

#11

Post by domwood »

catch23 wrote: post #8
domwood wrote: post #2

I'm not particularly impressed. The Pi isn't a budget computer, it's not for watching Nyan Cat or listening to podcasts, it's a computer sandboxing tool. Yes, it has teething problems but it's been designed on a minuscule budget, had little time in the wild to actually gain any traction and most definitely has not had the time required to mature the supported software. This review is targeting all the wrong things an…

I like to think of the RPi as an arduino that can run opencv. Arduinos are nice little devices for getting started in the electronics world, but when you need to do real work, it's nice that the RPi is essentially the same price.

It's a good way of putting it. Arduinos are probably more directly rewarding and usable (if you're an Engadget reporter anyway), but if I was setting up an under 16's Comp Sci class, It'd have to be the Pi, just 'cause it's more.. educational?

Re: Raspberry Pi impressions: the $35 Linux computer and tinker toy

#12

Post by InclinedPlane »

catch23 wrote: post #8
domwood wrote: post #2

I'm not particularly impressed. The Pi isn't a budget computer, it's not for watching Nyan Cat or listening to podcasts, it's a computer sandboxing tool. Yes, it has teething problems but it's been designed on a minuscule budget, had little time in the wild to actually gain any traction and most definitely has not had the time required to mature the supported software. This review is targeting all the wrong things an…

I like to think of the RPi as an arduino that can run opencv. Arduinos are nice little devices for getting started in the electronics world, but when you need to do real work, it's nice that the RPi is essentially the same price.

Quite so! And whereas the Arduino has flash and ram measured in a handful of kb the Raspberry Pi has half a gig of ram onboard and supports SD cards which run at less than a dollar per gig, and runs linux of course. If you want to run Python or Erlang or host a local Postresql server on your tiny little embedded system you can do so easily with Raspberry Pi. The sorts of projects that are going to come out of this thing are going to be incredible.

Re: Raspberry Pi impressions: the $35 Linux computer and tinker toy

#13

Post by adrianhoward »

saulrh wrote: post #5

because apparently it's the lack of time spent punching arcane commands into a terminal that has killed interest in computer science Uh, actually. I think that this review is well off, and it really shows here. The command line is simple . Everybody I know learned to program by writing command-line programs. I mean, seriously, int main(){printf("hello world");}. That's incredible for education. Review it as a media c…

The command line is simple.

For certain definitions of "simple" :-)

I'm one of the people who learned of a simple command line (although on a Sinclair ZX Spectrum - didn't have access to nice little unix boxes in my day).

And of course it's a fine and good way to learn how to program.

That said - I've seen a few teens take a different route. They got into MySpace. They started wanted to "tweak" things. That got them into HTML/CSS. That got them into JavaScript. That got them into coding.

Or I've seen people start with hypercard back when hypercard was the biz.

Or I've seen people start with Director (and later Flash) and move on from there.

The other thing I saw several times back in the day when I taught development to non-dev folk was that some folk were really put off by the command line. I remember we had a course that I taught that was built around an GUI IDEish environment where folk were building a little SHRDLU type app. At the same time a subset of the course were on a "beginners C" course that was all command line driven. The C course was good and well taught - but some folk hated it, but made superb progress on the IDEish course. It was freaky to see the same people spend hours ranting about finding files and overstepping array bounds by one on one course, while successfully building basic NLP apps on another :-)

Now - I like the RasPi. It's a cute box. But I'm unconvinced that it's going to make any significant difference in the number or kind of young folk who go play with development tools. I can't really picture anybody (child or parent) purchasing one of these who wouldn't already be the type to poke at a home Linux box or PC in a developerish way.

With the way that cheap PCs get recycled is the price point going to be enough? It's great for hobbyist hackers - but they were already hobbyist hackers :-)

Re: Raspberry Pi impressions: the $35 Linux computer and tinker toy

#14

Post by domwood »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #12
catch23 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to think of the RPi as an arduino that can run opencv. Arduinos are nice little devices for getting started in the electronics world, but when you need to do real work, it's nice that the RPi is essentially the same price.

Quite so! And whereas the Arduino has flash and ram measured in a handful of kb the Raspberry Pi has half a gig of ram onboard and supports SD cards which run at less than a dollar per gig, and runs linux of course. If you want to run Python or Erlang or host a local Postresql server on your tiny little embedded system you can do so easily with Raspberry Pi. The sorts of projects that are going to come out of this th…

They're also cheap enough to make distributed computing more immediately viable in those projects. A few of these chained up could probably do quite a variety of complicated tasks. I'd bet you could make stuff like self-driving cars a lot cheaper and efficient on the computing side.

Re: Raspberry Pi impressions: the $35 Linux computer and tinker toy

#15

Post by tluyben2 »

adrianhoward wrote: post #13
saulrh wrote: post #5

because apparently it's the lack of time spent punching arcane commands into a terminal that has killed interest in computer science Uh, actually. I think that this review is well off, and it really shows here. The command line is simple . Everybody I know learned to program by writing command-line programs. I mean, seriously, int main(){printf("hello world");}. That's incredible for education. Review it as a media c…

The command line is simple. For certain definitions of "simple" :-) I'm one of the people who learned of a simple command line (although on a Sinclair ZX Spectrum - didn't have access to nice little unix boxes in my day). And of course it's a fine and good way to learn how to program. That said - I've seen a few teens take a different route. They got into MySpace. They started wanted to "tweak" things. That got them…

Well the command line is simple, however it looks daunting at first. Even among non-programmers (like my wife); after they managed to get over their initial fear of 'learning all those difficult commands' and such, they start to loath GUIs for a lot of things.

Re: Raspberry Pi impressions: the $35 Linux computer and tinker toy

#16

Post by catch23 »

domwood wrote: post #11
catch23 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to think of the RPi as an arduino that can run opencv. Arduinos are nice little devices for getting started in the electronics world, but when you need to do real work, it's nice that the RPi is essentially the same price.

It's a good way of putting it. Arduinos are probably more directly rewarding and usable (if you're an Engadget reporter anyway), but if I was setting up an under 16's Comp Sci class, It'd have to be the Pi, just 'cause it's more.. educational?

The GPIO pins of the RPi can act as the same digital/analog pins that your arduino has, but if you use the arduino, you're confined to using their processing language to write code.

A typical project for the arduino might be to control a few simple servo motors to drive a small vehicle. Your comp sci class can now teach in python, and have python control the GPIO pins to drive the vehicle.

I think kids would be a lot more excited to learn how to program after seeing how a small $35 device can be used to control a car remotely.

Re: Raspberry Pi impressions: the $35 Linux computer and tinker toy

#17

Post by InclinedPlane »

domwood wrote: post #14
InclinedPlane wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite so! And whereas the Arduino has flash and ram measured in a handful of kb the Raspberry Pi has half a gig of ram onboard and supports SD cards which run at less than a dollar per gig, and runs linux of course. If you want to run Python or Erlang or host a local Postresql server on your tiny little embedded system you can do so easily with Raspberry Pi. The sorts of projects that are going to come out of this th…

They're also cheap enough to make distributed computing more immediately viable in those projects. A few of these chained up could probably do quite a variety of complicated tasks. I'd bet you could make stuff like self-driving cars a lot cheaper and efficient on the computing side.

That's an interesting point. With a $35 computer of those capabilities it's definitely a lot more doable to just develop out each hardware component to have a computer attached to it. You can run MongoDB or Couch or well as Node.js and have a services oriented architecture with high-level APIs between all your hardware components.

Re: Raspberry Pi impressions: the $35 Linux computer and tinker toy

#18

Post by domwood »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #17
domwood wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're also cheap enough to make distributed computing more immediately viable in those projects. A few of these chained up could probably do quite a variety of complicated tasks. I'd bet you could make stuff like self-driving cars a lot cheaper and efficient on the computing side.

That's an interesting point. With a $35 computer of those capabilities it's definitely a lot more doable to just develop out each hardware component to have a computer attached to it. You can run MongoDB or Couch or well as Node.js and have a services oriented architecture with high-level APIs between all your hardware components.

Exactly. Each device is potentially a self-contained unit of a whole, and things tend to get a damn sight more efficient if each is exclusively host to a specific tool, with the environment exclusively designed to match that specific tool. I do wonder just how efficient a cluster of Pis running a typical, but refactored for Pis, LAMP stack would be in comparison to a typical LAMP setup on a comparable server.

Re: Raspberry Pi impressions: the $35 Linux computer and tinker toy

#19

Post by domwood »

catch23 wrote: post #16
domwood wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good way of putting it. Arduinos are probably more directly rewarding and usable (if you're an Engadget reporter anyway), but if I was setting up an under 16's Comp Sci class, It'd have to be the Pi, just 'cause it's more.. educational?

The GPIO pins of the RPi can act as the same digital/analog pins that your arduino has, but if you use the arduino, you're confined to using their processing language to write code. A typical project for the arduino might be to control a few simple servo motors to drive a small vehicle. Your comp sci class can now teach in python, and have python control the GPIO pins to drive the vehicle. I think kids would be a lot…

Well put. I'm no kid, and it excites me! I think it's important we don't overlook the levelling effect stuff like this has, the same way Gutenberg took books to the masses, things like this take the ability to create with technology to the masses. It's not quite the same level of revolutionary, but it's still remarkable.

Re: Raspberry Pi impressions: the $35 Linux computer and tinker toy

#20

Post by linker3000 »

TapaJob wrote: post #4

For newbies, here's a guide i uploaded yesterday: http://moishtech.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/setup-and-run-asteri...

I already have Asterisk/FreePBX running on my Pi and had setup an RPi Wiki page ready for some notes, but work was curtailed due to hospitalization so would you consider popping in some something, or a link, from your excellent guide. I was just working on getting DAHDI going to support conferencing and see how the board coped with that - did you get that far?
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