Live data from Hacker News

The world's largest 3D printer is building cozy homes from wood

cnn.com

21–30 of 51 posts

Re: The world's largest 3D printer is building cozy homes from wood

#21
post #17

I watched a warehouse go up over the last few months. Everything above the floor was pre-cast concrete shipped in on flatbed trunks. For the size of the warehouse it was fascinating to watch just how fast it got built. The big time sink wasn't even the warehouse superstructure. Majority of the project time was leveling, compacting, and foundation. When I see 3D printing construction compared to precast modules I simp…

I feel the same way. Especially with a promo piece like this so short on details.

If you’ve watched a house, or any structure, go up, you know that building the basic structure happens remarkably quickly. This seems to replace framing, roofing and siding. Maybe drywall too?

But you still have all of the expensive/slow stuff like plumbing, electrical and finish carpentry that still has to be done.

Re: The world's largest 3D printer is building cozy homes from wood

#22

As a 3d printer enthusiast, I think this is really cool. But as someone who built an ADU a few years ago, I fail to see how this will address affordability in any meaningful way. Building a structure is a lot more than framing. For our project, the framers were on site a few weeks out of the six-month total. I think modular pre-fab building is a much more effective strategy for this segment of the market. Perhaps 3d…

I remember reading on a related reddit thread (more about container home costs) that structural costs account for only a small portion of the cost of home-building and that ground and electrical work, plumbing, finishes etc add a big portion

Re: The world's largest 3D printer is building cozy homes from wood

#23

As a 3d printer enthusiast, I think this is really cool. But as someone who built an ADU a few years ago, I fail to see how this will address affordability in any meaningful way. Building a structure is a lot more than framing. For our project, the framers were on site a few weeks out of the six-month total. I think modular pre-fab building is a much more effective strategy for this segment of the market. Perhaps 3d…

Sheds and small storage buildings seem like they could be a good use of the technology. Dwelling units and production spaces need utilities, which complicates things. Sheds need a solid base, good walls, a roof (which might be 3D printed in stairstep fashion), and a door. There's a big gap in the market between the metal/resin DIY kits from big box retailers and the prefab sheds delivered by flatbed truck.

Re: The world's largest 3D printer is building cozy homes from wood

#24
In my area, the definitions of prefab or "manufactured" housing used to keep out poverty-associated dwellings have been extended to apply to anything not constructed locally on site.

We're also famous for our "Sears homes", which ironically would be illegal under the modern interpretation of the codes to construct.

Given that I don't think the prejudice is against the materials themselves, bringing the manufacturing on site to fabricate a home is more likely to get new laws written against the process than to fix housing in areas that don't feel they have a particular deficiency of 3D printed homes.

Re: The world's largest 3D printer is building cozy homes from wood

#25
post #9

Maybe it's just the fact that I don't know anything about material science, but I am not sure I'd feel safe in a wood+resin house; this just seems like it's going to end up as extruded particleboard, which I wouldn't even consider building a house out of it. Honestly, maybe they're getting better, but when I researched 3D printed houses about a year ago I was a little disappointed to see how little the 3d printing ac…

Reminds me a bit of the Shed-to-House projects or shipping container house projects that end up costing nearly as much as a site built home once all of the non-shell costs are added in.

Re: The world's largest 3D printer is building cozy homes from wood

#26
post #17

I watched a warehouse go up over the last few months. Everything above the floor was pre-cast concrete shipped in on flatbed trunks. For the size of the warehouse it was fascinating to watch just how fast it got built. The big time sink wasn't even the warehouse superstructure. Majority of the project time was leveling, compacting, and foundation. When I see 3D printing construction compared to precast modules I simp…

Maybe one of the few upsides of this tech is the customizability. Sure, you can get a prefab house built in a week or less if you try, but it's going to be constrained by the prefab shape and layout, even with modular blocks there are still design constraints, like with https://www.wikihouse.cc.

As seen in other environments, 3D printing lets anyone design and build for their own use case. People are not all about practicality, they want to like their environment too and being able to bring up your house exactly the way you like it is great.

Re: The world's largest 3D printer is building cozy homes from wood

#27
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I fail to see how this will address affordability in any meaningful way Especially since it's unlikely that we can address the housing shortage by building single-family homes.

Especially when permit fees and taxes are fixed and ~30% of the cost to build (in cities like Vancouver: https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-housing-government... ) It could cost $250k to legally build a sandcastle in Vancouver.

That was a study done by an industry group and included all fees and taxes in a contrived scenario. Not just permitting fees.

So things like property tax during the build period, as well as sales tax and service tax charged by the builders contractors. The study assumed a 5 year build period and multiplied all yearly property taxes by that amount. It also tacked on things like the vacant home tax and speculation tax which are not applied to properties under construction. Many of the taxes and fees are also scaled to the square footage of the house. Lastly they also included things like sewer hookup fees, which is really not an unnecessary cost for a builder to pay.

Permit fees are too high, and maybe we should exempt a lot of them given the current crisis, but this study is aiming for a quick headline. If you dig into their analysis it is a worst case scenario for what a house would cost for a foreign speculator who left the house vacant before flipping it and didn’t qualify for any homebuyer tax exemptions.

A lot of those taxes and fees wouldn’t apply to a sandcastle is what I’m saying. The $250k figure is the number they quoted for a $900k 2-bed new-build condo in a transit corridor. Even in their own study the lower cost housing units were coming in at half that.

Re: The world's largest 3D printer is building cozy homes from wood

#28
post #17

I watched a warehouse go up over the last few months. Everything above the floor was pre-cast concrete shipped in on flatbed trunks. For the size of the warehouse it was fascinating to watch just how fast it got built. The big time sink wasn't even the warehouse superstructure. Majority of the project time was leveling, compacting, and foundation. When I see 3D printing construction compared to precast modules I simp…

> pre-cast concrete shipped in

I've also seen this done where the walls were cast concrete using molds placed on the large and flat foundation floor. Still went up alarmingly fast. It does make me wonder if similar balloon techniques are worth re-visiting for domestic architecture. Either way, it's amusing to see such a rapid construction technique used to warehouse and bootstrap a completely different rapid construction technique.

> Majority of the project time was leveling, compacting, and foundation.

And drainage. It's amazing how much time and construction effort goes into "make water go down the hole".

Re: The world's largest 3D printer is building cozy homes from wood

#29
I’ve worked a lot in construction both prior to entering tech and as a side hustle while working for tech companies.

Every single one of these construction-tech products fail to address actual problems and bottlenecks in the construction process, ultimately creating just novelties dreamt up by someone who has never set foot on a job site.

The wood frame is one of the fastest parts of structure, I am able to frame 300-900sqft ADUs (accessory dwelling units) in 2-3 days with help or 3-4 days solo, which is 24-48 human hours. The lumber is ordered and delivered by truck, it requires no special equipment, only really needing a battery operated miter saw, nailer, impact driver, measuring tape, speed square, string lines, levels, hammer, and sunscreen.

What takes a long time is everything else:

* Foundation is 85% site prep, 10% coordination of materials/subcontractors/inspection, and 5% of actual work construction. Draining and grading is overlooked or under considered most often leading to settling/cracking or outright failure of the foundation system prematurely.

* Plumbing needs to be involved between every single step, beginning from after the site is graded to after wall coverings are up and fixtures are ready to be installed. DWV (drain waste vent) is critical to get right as shit only travels downhill.

* Electrical is time consuming, has expensive materials, and is getting saddled with even more requirements of diminishing returns. 200A main panels are the norm basically all new construction is 100% electric. You are running 10/3 wire (3 conductors of 10AWG + ground) at $1.30/ft for a clothes dryer, 6/3 at $5.50-6.50/ft for both your electric range hookup and EV charger, 8/3 at $3-4/ft for your HVAC, dedicated 12/2 circuits for each of your microwave, refrigerator, dish washer, garbage disposer, etc. all circuit breakers that service circuits in dwelling area must be arc fault protected (which means your breakers went from $10-20 each to $40-80 each). I won’t even go into solar and how much of everything must be solar ready.

* HVAC is straight forward for new homes, provided the unit/s is/are sized appropriately.

* Wall covering (usually drywall) takes a long time with many passes to affix, tape, and sand wallboard

* Vapor barriers on the outside require basic knowledge to get the install right - which is sadly not always present for the build

* Exterior cladding can take many forms from shiplap siding (cedar or composite), masonry board, a masonry product like stucco, vinyl, or just a tongue and groove primed siding board.

* Roofing is easy and fast but costly

* Final utility hookup is fraught with slowdowns and annoyances, requires certain inspections to be done (but not all) and unless you have someone’s desk phone at the utility to help you out, it’s a crappy process to navigate.

* Landscaping and other finish work takes a while

The elephant in the room, however, is always the going to be related to the red tape. Permitting accounts for a significant chunk of the cost where a new single family home might incur $90-$130K in just permit fees alone (in Sacramento where I’m located, which is on the medium/low end for California). The process is becoming so convoluted and draconian that you need literal consultants to tell you where to burn piles of cash that add comparatively little value to the overall project and just drive costs up unnecessarily. Having safe buildings is important and there is value in getting an third party check work for correctness, but something is wrong when my $85-$200K construction project doubles because it’s literally illegal not to pay this. Because this cost does not scale linearly with the size of the build, most developers build the largest sized home they can for the plot as that’s the best value relative to permitting costs. Affordable housing to-own is never going to be within reach with the way this is setup.

Re: The world's largest 3D printer is building cozy homes from wood

#30
post #9

Maybe it's just the fact that I don't know anything about material science, but I am not sure I'd feel safe in a wood+resin house; this just seems like it's going to end up as extruded particleboard, which I wouldn't even consider building a house out of it. Honestly, maybe they're getting better, but when I researched 3D printed houses about a year ago I was a little disappointed to see how little the 3d printing ac…

Wood is cheap. I wouldn't be surprised if the materials of this are more than a wood frame plus labor to put it up. At least when I compare HDPE 2x4 to wood 2x4s the cost difference is massive.
Post reply on HN