Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot • Hacker News Board

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#81

Post by FabHK » Tue, Jun 04, 2024, 1:30 PM UTC

dist1ll wrote: post #70

eterm wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those things require crypto. They are essentially solved problems. The UK banking system has had chip&pin for 20+ years, has had (Europe-wide?) instant payments for at least a decade. Banking numbers in the UK are push not pull, you cannot take someone else's money just because you have their bank number. * Payments require CVV (and have done for almost 30 years) and often additional 2fa verification through…

Many of the things I mentioned are absolutely not solved problems. > Payments require CVV Many companies regularly violate regulations and store CVVs against your will. How do you think millions of CC CVVs get leaked in many of these major hacks? > Solving the problem for international transfers simply requires greater international cooperation Sounds great in theory. How long has traditional finance had to work out…

> I still can't send money to an US account without paying absurd fees.

You think that is a technological problem? Using crypto appears cheap (despite being inferior technology) because it simply skips 99% of what banks are doing.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#82

Post by FabHK » Tue, Jun 04, 2024, 1:33 PM UTC

jonahbenton wrote: post #67

infotainment wrote: post #30

I continue to be convinced that the only valid use cases for crypto are scams and money laundering -- chalk up this one to the latter. Can anyone name an application besides those two things that traditional finance doesn't handle better?

T+0 settlement is something blockchain has solved that tradfi has not. Asset tokenization is another big one- getting solved, at least. And inflation hedging. Regulatory def has not caught up but in 10-20 years you individually will definitely have some portion of your financial transactions, whether payments or investments, settling on blockchain.

> Asset tokenization

LOL. Here's a novel idea: take debt, and chop it into fungible pieces that can be traded (a process we could call "securitisation"). Let's call it a bond. Or: Take equity, and chop it into fungible pieces that can be traded. Let's call it a share. That's impossible to do without crypto. Right? Right???

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#83

Post by FabHK » Tue, Jun 04, 2024, 1:34 PM UTC

freedomben wrote: post #76

dagw wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

T+0 settlement is something blockchain has solved that tradfi has not The reason 'tradfi' doesn't offer T+0 has nothing to do with technology (or lack of). It's an intentional policy choice and not due to technical limitations.

Policy choice is a good example. If you disagree with the policy choice of traditional finance, you can opt for a system that is more in alignment with you.

Sure. And if you disagree with money laundering choices and tax dodging choices and terrorist financing choices of traditional finance, you can opt for a system that is more in alignment with you.

The question is: why should we let you do that?

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#84

Post by FabHK » Tue, Jun 04, 2024, 1:38 PM UTC

dagw wrote: post #74

0dayz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point 3 is bad advice, historically it's been the Swiss franks that is the gold standard for saving up in case of hyperinflation.

Getting your money into a crypto coin that tracks a stable currency can in some cases be cheaper and easier than getting your money into that currency.

Yeah, like Liberty Reserve back in 2006. A centralised stable coin, which was shut down by the US government a few years later for the usual reasons: money laundering, crime, etc.

Crypto, being permissionless, is just a bit harder to shut down; but not any more legal.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#85

Post by wslh » Tue, Jun 04, 2024, 1:39 PM UTC

freddie_mercury wrote: post #65

wslh wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a 4: working in an inflationary and non-free market country such as Argentina. That is not only about savings (3) but business transactions.

Crypto isn't the answer to this. "Use literally any other currency, of which crypto is merely one among many" is the answer. Argentines adopted the US Dollar, not any cryptocurrency, to solve their problems.

Completely incorrect. I am Argentinian and perfectly know that Argentines of multiple social classes use crypto. It is even public information!

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#86

Post by jonahbenton » Tue, Jun 04, 2024, 2:10 PM UTC

FabHK wrote: post #82

jonahbenton wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

T+0 settlement is something blockchain has solved that tradfi has not. Asset tokenization is another big one- getting solved, at least. And inflation hedging. Regulatory def has not caught up but in 10-20 years you individually will definitely have some portion of your financial transactions, whether payments or investments, settling on blockchain.

> Asset tokenization LOL. Here's a novel idea: take debt, and chop it into fungible pieces that can be traded (a process we could call "securitisation"). Let's call it a bond. Or: Take equity, and chop it into fungible pieces that can be traded. Let's call it a share. That's impossible to do without crypto. Right? Right???

LOL, of course not. But momentum for doing so with, for instance, real estate, exists on blockchain and doesn't really exist on trad.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#87

Post by dist1ll » Tue, Jun 04, 2024, 2:14 PM UTC

FabHK wrote: post #81

dist1ll wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the things I mentioned are absolutely not solved problems. > Payments require CVV Many companies regularly violate regulations and store CVVs against your will. How do you think millions of CC CVVs get leaked in many of these major hacks? > Solving the problem for international transfers simply requires greater international cooperation Sounds great in theory. How long has traditional finance had to work out…

> I still can't send money to an US account without paying absurd fees. You think that is a technological problem? Using crypto appears cheap (despite being inferior technology) because it simply skips 99% of what banks are doing.

Well, clearly I don't need 99% of whatever the bank is doing to send a transaction between two accounts I own. Add to that all the things that many banks continuously fail to provide, like proper OpsSec, transparent fees, full programmability via APIs.

> despite being inferior technology

Could you clarify? Are you talking about a particular protocol, or an implementation component, or mean crypto in general?

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#88

Post by AtlasBarfed » Tue, Jun 04, 2024, 2:16 PM UTC

infotainment wrote: post #30

I continue to be convinced that the only valid use cases for crypto are scams and money laundering -- chalk up this one to the latter. Can anyone name an application besides those two things that traditional finance doesn't handle better?

Hedge on money printing... Ahem "monetary policy"

Otherwise I agree, although special purpose ones like helium I can see encoding interesting rewards.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#89

Post by nonameiguess » Tue, Jun 04, 2024, 2:24 PM UTC

infotainment wrote: post #30

I continue to be convinced that the only valid use cases for crypto are scams and money laundering -- chalk up this one to the latter. Can anyone name an application besides those two things that traditional finance doesn't handle better?

The other guy that said this has been downvoted because Hacker News for whatever reason seems to be out of the loop on how this works, but buying illegal drugs on the Internet is a perfectly valid answer. It's more or less the most accepted way short of a corrupt physician writing bullshit prescriptions of getting steroids and any other performance enhancing drug for athletes. And it's far safer and more effective to do this on the Internet than from some "locally known" source that transacts in cash. Sources on the Internet are illegal but otherwise entirely legitimate businesses. There are large web communities of people who buy and review their products. There are trusted third-party labs that do chemical analysis to prove the purity of a product, and reputable sources advertise that they will and, in fact, actually do reimburse purchasers who randomly send samples to these labs and post the results publicly on known review forums.

The fact that the non-athlete universe seems entirely unaware of this quite well-functioning parallel economy does not mean it doesn't exist.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#90

Post by silverlake » Tue, Jun 04, 2024, 2:26 PM UTC

dist1ll wrote: post #70

eterm wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those things require crypto. They are essentially solved problems. The UK banking system has had chip&pin for 20+ years, has had (Europe-wide?) instant payments for at least a decade. Banking numbers in the UK are push not pull, you cannot take someone else's money just because you have their bank number. * Payments require CVV (and have done for almost 30 years) and often additional 2fa verification through…

Many of the things I mentioned are absolutely not solved problems. > Payments require CVV Many companies regularly violate regulations and store CVVs against your will. How do you think millions of CC CVVs get leaked in many of these major hacks? > Solving the problem for international transfers simply requires greater international cooperation Sounds great in theory. How long has traditional finance had to work out…

I had a similar opinion until I worked at a bank. Think of banks as an extension of the government, deputized to monitor all transactions for illegal activity. If banks fail they get in big trouble with the gov’t. Most bank transfers in the US are faster than any blockchain, but this is usually between known corporate entities that do a lot of business. For individuals there’s far more automated scrutiny. In addition, many smaller banks have ancient systems they refuse to upgrade, so overall speed of the banking system is held back by these weak links. Also, US banking oligopoly benefits from slower transactions and higher fees. Europe shows that regulators can force banks to operate faster and cheaper. That’s why this is not a tech issue, it’s a regulatory problem.