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I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

nelson.cloud

391–400 of 625 posts

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#391
post #9

The unfortunate reality is that If you don't do this you'll hire people who can't program

No. The unfortunate reality is that if you don't do something - if you don't find a way to test whether they can actually program - then you will hire people who can't program. You need something.

But that "something" doesn't have to be leetcode. There are much better (and less abusive) ways of doing the same thing. All it takes is a programming problem that they've not seen before. That's it.

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You cannot categorically claim that LC tests are largely memorization tests rather than raw problem-solving skills If that were the case then a normal, well accomplished software engineer shouldn't need to "grind" leetcode to pass an interview. its just a cargo cult. Getting someone to do a code review is a much much better test of skill: Do they ask questions? are they kind in their assertions? At what point do th…

>If that were the case then a normal, well accomplished software engineer shouldn't need to "grind" leetcode to pass an interview. No, what this shows is that the skill range for accomplished professional software devs is absolutely massive. What these companies want is to find the tail end of this very wide distribution. Leetcode interviews do a decent job at this. If you have been coding for a decade and can't do l…

> Leetcode interviews do a decent job at this.

I mean it doesn't, because I'm at a FAANG, At a FAANG you are infantalised from the very start, sure you passed a very difficult interview where you have to balance a binary tree efficiently as possible. But you're going to use none of those skills here.

what you actually end up doing is copy/pasting some random code you found using internal code search, because the sensible way of doing it can't happen as that would involve porting a thirdparty library, and doing all the procedural work that follows.

so you hack some shit together, ship out out and hope that it doesn't break. You then decommission the nasty hack you shipped last year and claim credit for innovating. Is your product not hitting the right metrics? loosing users? doesn't matter, so long as the super boss is happy that you've hammered in the REST API for the stupid AI interface, you're not going to get fired.

In a startup/small company, if you fuck up, the whole place is going under. Need metrics? you'll need to find a small, cheap and effective system.

Here, we just record then entire world and then throw hundreds of thousands of machines at it to make a vaguly SQL interface. Don't worry about normalising your data, or packing it efficiently just make a 72 column table, and fill it full of random JSON shit. Need to alter a metrics? just add a new column.

In short, don't praise or assume that FAANGs are any good at anything other than making money. They are effectively a high budget marvel movie, Sure they have a big set, but most of it is held together with tape and labour. Look round the side and you'll see its all wood, glue and gaffer tape.

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#393

I see these posts a lot, and I sort of disagree with where they are coming from so I'll play devils advocate. Leetcode is used to select for one of (or both of these) 2 things for the average IC hire: 1. Do you work hard (i.e a person who studies many problems, memorizes solutions, and regurgitates then) 2. Are you smart (i.e a person who doesn't do any leetcode but knows the fundamentals and can sythesize past knowl…

>And realistically, companies index less on leetcode skill as you become more senior or apply to more niche roles.

when does this start? I'm over 8 years in and I'm tired of being told to make a dang NxM Bingo solver in 30 minutes.

>Leetcode is not meant to magically select for the best engineers.

I'd agree with you in 2022. in 2024, I'm being way more filtered out for questions that I get right but didn't solve fast enough, or with zero hints. I was never a leetcode savant (too many other things to study for, and LC is maybe 20% of my interviews) but I don't feel that much worse than 2 years ago. Companies just have sky high expectations and are on a bargain bin for 15+ year roles paying 5 year salaries.

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also be a lot richer if I was able to create BS of this magnitude but I can't. Here's the practice test they gave me: https://www.hackerrank.com/test/63ek10mhil5/60d306ab105867d8...

So what? The log parsing thing is a reasonable question, not some obscure bitshift find-a-binary-paindrome hack.

The so-what was just to confirm that Amazon do leetcode interviews, contrary to your statement.

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no. I wanted to say Eastern, as I have examples from both Asia and East Europe. I wished to not be more specific so as to not derail the discussion into "user kidintech implied that nation X has a tendency to cheat".

Out of curiosity, can you share some examples from eastern Europe? Where does one find such websites? Also, IMHO, blanket generalizations like "Asia" and "Eastern Europe" in such contexts can actually be more offensive than just mentioning the one country where the thing happens since you're basically painting with tar a whole sub-continent with dozens of different countries, just for the things happening in one coun…

[deleted]

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#396
> Especially since I know for a fact they don’t reflect the actual responsibilities of a software engineering of a job.

I had one job working on a compiler that fairly regularly had leetcode-style algorithms problems, even novel ones.

But yeah, most don't.

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#397
post #80
post #66

I've interviewed developer candidates who seemed to know a lot of theory, but when it came to write some code, they failed miserably. They could not implement fizz-buzz. Senior Java developers who could not import HashMap without looking it up. It's kind of like math. If you need to multiply 562 * 1041, you should use a calculator. If you need to reach for a calculator to tell me how much 3 * 7 is, I will doubt that…

> Senior Java developers who could not import HashMap without looking it up. Eclipse does not without me having to even look at it. IntelliJ does the same. In what situation these people had to import it by hand? They had no ide available or what?

If I am looking for a senior java developer I absolutely expect that they know about java.util and java.lang classes w/o any reference whatsoever. Heck, I expect they know why java.util.HashMap is subpar, or even the common hash mul-and-add const 31 is suboptimial.

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#398
post #306
post #66

I've interviewed developer candidates who seemed to know a lot of theory, but when it came to write some code, they failed miserably. They could not implement fizz-buzz. Senior Java developers who could not import HashMap without looking it up. It's kind of like math. If you need to multiply 562 * 1041, you should use a calculator. If you need to reach for a calculator to tell me how much 3 * 7 is, I will doubt that…

Memorization of the hashmap package name is the stupidest Java programming test I have ever heard of.

[deleted]

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#399
Over the past 25 years, the only thing that has ever reliably identified successful candidates for my hiring was having 2-3 people (at least one "cross-departmental") rate how much they wanted to work with the candidate, leaving it entirely up to them to determine how they arrived at that rating, and only hiring the highest rated people. I still performed superficial screening/filtering of resume/cv but there are very few roles in very few businesses where the "leetcode-style" of interviewing tells you anything relevant whatsoever.

The industry only does it because it FEELS LIKE it tells you something relevant, and it FEELS LIKE you and your business must be important if this is how you interview people.

Re: I am sick of LeetCode-style interviews

#400

I understand the frustration, but at the end of the day I think they do serve a purpose. They're not great at that purpose, but they're good enough and they generally produce false negatives (smart people fail) rather than false positives (you hire an idiot). And this makes sense, because a false negative is low cost (maybe you spend 50% longer interviewing candidates) but a false positive is high cost (you hire an i…

That false negative can be pretty damn expensive if the good engineer you didn't hire could have saved your ass from the situation the less-good engineer you did hire couldn't handle.
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