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Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

bbc.com

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Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#51

Post by mcculley »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #36
pjc50 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they opened a bank account, deposited their own money in it and then withdrew it again without stealing anything or harming anyone, but you're not allowed to do that under someone else's name Yes, you're not allowed to do that under someone else's name, that's what the crime is. > can't be bothered to prove the original crime The entire point of money laundering is to make it as difficult as possible to find the or…

> Yes, you're not allowed to do that under someone else's name, that's what the crime is. But that's the objection. That's a stupid crime. The only reason anybody wants to do that is that they can't open one under nobody's name, even though there are legitimate and innocent reasons to want to do that. > The entire point of money laundering is to make it as difficult as possible to find the original crime or connect i…

>> Yes, you're not allowed to do that under someone else's name, that's what the crime is.

>But that's the objection. That's a stupid crime. The only reason anybody wants to do that is that they can't open one under nobody's name, even though there are legitimate and innocent reasons to want to do that.

It is far from true that the only reason people falsify identity in transactions is because KYC laws require identity. You should learn more about what criminals actually do.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#52

Post by speeder »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #44
logicchains wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since the harsh crackdown in the 90s, mostly the cult side is left, and they are dangerous loonies. Be careful what you believe about the Falun Gong; the CCP has spent vast amounts of money and resources smearing them, you can't take everything you read at face value.

True, but I think what they say about themselves is already enough of an indictment. And then the leader lives on a giant luxurious ranch in DC with his dozen or so wives, while managing a global disinformation empire that allegedly is also involved in criminal behaviour.

Care to give links for that? Last I heard about it they had a property in NY and their leader had only one wife. I googled to see if I could find anything about their DC ranch but didn't found anything.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#53

Post by wslh »

indy wrote: post #35
infotainment wrote: post #30

I continue to be convinced that the only valid use cases for crypto are scams and money laundering -- chalk up this one to the latter. Can anyone name an application besides those two things that traditional finance doesn't handle better?

1. Sending money to dangerous people like Julian Assange. 2. Sending money to relatives in the third world 3. Keeping your savings when the currency of your nation is going through hyperinflation

There is a 4: working in an inflationary and non-free market country such as Argentina.

That is not only about savings (3) but business transactions.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#54

Post by yareal »

logicchains wrote: post #31
arijun wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I follow your logic…

Their logic is that the US government behaves like a communist regime, doing whatever it can to punish and silence real dissent (like Edward Snowden and Julian Assange), so they assumed it might just be using this as an excuse to punish a newspaper that often hosts anti-US-government content.

I'd grant you that the US government acts like an authoritarian regime, but communist is a laughable accusation.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#55

Post by AnthonyMouse »

mcculley wrote: post #51
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, you're not allowed to do that under someone else's name, that's what the crime is. But that's the objection. That's a stupid crime. The only reason anybody wants to do that is that they can't open one under nobody's name, even though there are legitimate and innocent reasons to want to do that. > The entire point of money laundering is to make it as difficult as possible to find the original crime or connect i…

>> Yes, you're not allowed to do that under someone else's name, that's what the crime is. >But that's the objection. That's a stupid crime. The only reason anybody wants to do that is that they can't open one under nobody's name, even though there are legitimate and innocent reasons to want to do that. It is far from true that the only reason people falsify identity in transactions is because KYC laws require identi…

Explain why someone would want to open a new empty bank account in someone else's name other than because they couldn't or don't want to open a new empty bank account in their own name.

That's the crime we're talking about here. Not committing fraud so you can steal someone else's money, but only lying about your name because you don't want to give your name and the law prohibits you from not giving a name.

The problem isn't even that it's illegal to open a bank account in someone else's name. The problem is that you're prohibited from anonymously opening a bank account.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#56

Post by smoothbenny »

indy wrote: post #35
infotainment wrote: post #30

I continue to be convinced that the only valid use cases for crypto are scams and money laundering -- chalk up this one to the latter. Can anyone name an application besides those two things that traditional finance doesn't handle better?

1. Sending money to dangerous people like Julian Assange. 2. Sending money to relatives in the third world 3. Keeping your savings when the currency of your nation is going through hyperinflation

> 3. Keeping your savings when the currency of your nation is going through hyperinflation

What crypto has shown long term stability and isn’t subject to the same forces that cause volatility in any currency?

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#57

Post by smoothbenny »

logicchains wrote: post #32
infotainment wrote: post #30

I continue to be convinced that the only valid use cases for crypto are scams and money laundering -- chalk up this one to the latter. Can anyone name an application besides those two things that traditional finance doesn't handle better?

>Can anyone name an application besides those two things that traditional finance doesn't handle better? Buying drugs is an obvious thing that crypto's much better for. Similarly sending money to people in countries the US government doesn't like.

The former seems much riskier to transact in crypto vs. buying locally in cash from a known entity

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#58

Post by dist1ll »

infotainment wrote: post #30

I continue to be convinced that the only valid use cases for crypto are scams and money laundering -- chalk up this one to the latter. Can anyone name an application besides those two things that traditional finance doesn't handle better?

Assuming we're talking about low-cost chains that can actually be used for high-speed payment (which basically rules out L1 ETH/BTC)

* Sending money without paying an obscene amount of settlement fees and having to wait in some cases half a week. International transfers are an absolute UX nightmare for many banking providers.

* Being able to secure your account with proper OpsSec, i.e. identity/account management with proper hardware-based 2FA without any SMS loopholes. To date, I haven't found a bank that actually completely disables SMS 2FA as an option.

* Being able to pay without giving away your credentials. The credit card system is completely backwards. If you're online shopping regularly, your financial info and home address probably get leaked once a year.

I feel 10x more safe with self-custody than any banking solution I've used in the last decade. Traditional finance imo has been an absolute nightmare compared to crypto. Trad finance services bleed you out left and right, not to mention the hidden CC transaction fees people conveniently leave out of these discussions.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#59

Post by 0110101001 »

eli wrote: post #38
perihelions wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The indictment says very little about the underlying crime schemes. (I understand indictments usually don't say and don't need to say very much). - "The prepaid debit cards were issued by different debit card companies and loaded with U.S. dollars that had been unlawfully obtained through various frauds (i.e. , the crime proceeds). For example, certain of the prepaid debit cards were loaded with fraudulently procured…

That seems clear to me. They used stolen identity information to make false unemployment insurance claims in other people’s names. The CFO bought the prepaid cards at a discount and then transferred the whole amount to the company account. Maybe there’s more to it but it doesn’t sound like it was very sophisticated and seems inevitable they would be caught eventually.

> They used stolen identity information to make false unemployment insurance claims in other people’s names.

I don't think "they," meaning Epoch Times, did the actual identity theft / unemployment insurance fraud. The indictment says they "purchased" the debit cards, and there are no charges related to those crimes.

It sounds like Epoch Times found a platform where such fraudsters were offloading their phony unemployment debit cards at a discount (this started in 2020, when I presume there was a huge boom in unemployment fraud) and tried to flip them around as legitimate donations and subscription revenue for an easy profit.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#60

Post by purge »

indy wrote: post #35
infotainment wrote: post #30

I continue to be convinced that the only valid use cases for crypto are scams and money laundering -- chalk up this one to the latter. Can anyone name an application besides those two things that traditional finance doesn't handle better?

1. Sending money to dangerous people like Julian Assange. 2. Sending money to relatives in the third world 3. Keeping your savings when the currency of your nation is going through hyperinflation

I send money to 'the third world' a lot and it's extremely easy without having to resort to crypto nonsense. Hearing these implausible points repeated every time this question comes up just seems desperate now.
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