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Not sure I follow your logic…
I continue to be convinced that the only valid use cases for crypto are scams and money laundering -- chalk up this one to the latter. Can anyone name an application besides those two things that traditional finance doesn't handle better?
Buying drugs is an obvious thing that crypto's much better for. Similarly sending money to people in countries the US government doesn't like.
Wow. I wonder what they were buying? It’s not spelled out in the article I didn’t realize they were affiliated with Falun Gong. The only reason I even know this company existed is their billboards started popping up on the highway recently.
We used to occasionally get Epoch Times issues stuffed into our mailbox. (Illegally, I understand, since they were not delivered by the USPS.) They were full of the most disgusting bigoted hateful rhetoric. It actually made me feel quite uncomfortable, thinking about who was writing and distributing it. "Shen Yun", a show that also has billboard ads all over the bay area, is also a Falun Gong operation, just like Epo…
Such as?
Excuse for doubting, but people - especially people on this board - tend to use those kind of words and accusations whenever there's somebody that has a different opinion on some issue.
I've only seen stuff published by Epoch Times occasionally and those times they've had a much tamer profile than what you're describing.
> The plot, prosecutors said, was simple: members of the Make Money Online (MMO) team would purchase crime proceeds via cryptocurrency at a discount and transfer those proceeds into bank accounts held by entities affiliated with newspaper. > The illegal proceeds would ultimately be moved back into the Epoch Times accounts through "tens of thousands of layered transactions", including through prepaid debit cards and f…
These indictments always read so weird, like they're trying to describe a nefarious criminal organization even though its behavior is just the same as any other enterprise. So they performed an unspecified financial transaction (allegedly illegal but not proven), which turned a profit, then paid the money out to a lot of people, who in turn paid some of it back to them later. Isn't that just... the economy? Walmart p…
Further, as to prosecuting the thefts, for all we know that is the next step, or they have already done that and secured the cooperation of those conspirators as witnesses.
I continue to be convinced that the only valid use cases for crypto are scams and money laundering -- chalk up this one to the latter. Can anyone name an application besides those two things that traditional finance doesn't handle better?
2. Sending money to relatives in the third world
3. Keeping your savings when the currency of your nation is going through hyperinflation
Earlier quoted context omitted.
These indictments always read so weird, like they're trying to describe a nefarious criminal organization even though its behavior is just the same as any other enterprise. So they performed an unspecified financial transaction (allegedly illegal but not proven), which turned a profit, then paid the money out to a lot of people, who in turn paid some of it back to them later. Isn't that just... the economy? Walmart p…
> they opened a bank account, deposited their own money in it and then withdrew it again without stealing anything or harming anyone, but you're not allowed to do that under someone else's name Yes, you're not allowed to do that under someone else's name, that's what the crime is. > can't be bothered to prove the original crime The entire point of money laundering is to make it as difficult as possible to find the or…
But that's the objection. That's a stupid crime. The only reason anybody wants to do that is that they can't open one under nobody's name, even though there are legitimate and innocent reasons to want to do that.
> The entire point of money laundering is to make it as difficult as possible to find the original crime or connect it.
Money does that already by itself, because it's fungible. It's why AML laws don't work -- their effectiveness is basically zero. The harm they cause to innocent people far exceeds the benefits in rooting out undiscovered crimes -- not least because crimes that are causing harm to people are generally quite easily discovered, when the victims go to the police and report them.
> In an environment of anonymous payments, how do you prove X made a payment to Y?
You ignore the concept of wanting to do this at all and just prove that X committed the underlying crime. Because if there is no underlying crime then there is no need to prove whether or not there was a payment. The government has no legitimate interesting in proving what kind of literature or contraceptives you like to buy.
> You're not allowed to help people fence stolen goods, and it's not a defence to look the other way.
The way this is typically implemented is that the stolen goods are returned to the owner if you're caught with them. You don't actually get prosecuted unless they can prove you were in on it. After all, how is anybody supposed to know that? You go to jail because you bought something at a yard sale not knowing it was stolen?
But that's exactly why it doesn't apply to money. Money is entirely fungible. If a criminal steals your car and sells it to a chop shop for $5000, and then the chop shop spends the money at Walmart and McDonalds, and then the money ends up in their bank account from which it goes to their suppliers and shareholders and other customers, just exactly who are you supposed to be entitled to recover from? And what is your retirement fund manager supposed to do, investigate each of Walmart's customers to see where they got their money?
It would also be double counting. The stolen property is the car, not the money the thief sells it for. Unless the buyer didn't know the car was stolen, which is a separate crime with a different victim. And even then you're not trying to recover those specific bills or care about where they went after, you're just trying to recover any equivalent amount of assets from the criminal you can prove fraudulently sold a stolen car.
Investigating crimes is for the police, not corporations. When you force corporations to do it, they do it capriciously and oppressively, because there are no constitutional safeguards.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
These indictments always read so weird, like they're trying to describe a nefarious criminal organization even though its behavior is just the same as any other enterprise. So they performed an unspecified financial transaction (allegedly illegal but not proven), which turned a profit, then paid the money out to a lot of people, who in turn paid some of it back to them later. Isn't that just... the economy? Walmart p…
That’s an interesting opinion but there is a law and order benefit to a transparent financial system. Prosecuting launderers increases confidence in our economy.
> The plot, prosecutors said, was simple: members of the Make Money Online (MMO) team would purchase crime proceeds via cryptocurrency at a discount and transfer those proceeds into bank accounts held by entities affiliated with newspaper. > The illegal proceeds would ultimately be moved back into the Epoch Times accounts through "tens of thousands of layered transactions", including through prepaid debit cards and f…
The indictment says very little about the underlying crime schemes. (I understand indictments usually don't say and don't need to say very much). - "The prepaid debit cards were issued by different debit card companies and loaded with U.S. dollars that had been unlawfully obtained through various frauds (i.e. , the crime proceeds). For example, certain of the prepaid debit cards were loaded with fraudulently procured…
The CFO bought the prepaid cards at a discount and then transferred the whole amount to the company account.
Maybe there’s more to it but it doesn’t sound like it was very sophisticated and seems inevitable they would be caught eventually.
> The plot, prosecutors said, was simple: members of the Make Money Online (MMO) team would purchase crime proceeds via cryptocurrency at a discount and transfer those proceeds into bank accounts held by entities affiliated with newspaper. > The illegal proceeds would ultimately be moved back into the Epoch Times accounts through "tens of thousands of layered transactions", including through prepaid debit cards and f…
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