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China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,120 missiles

bulgarianmilitary.com

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Re: China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,120 missiles

#41

Post by r2_pilot »

belter wrote: post #37
r2_pilot wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. The US has a treaty to defend Taiwan against foreign aggression. China has abstained from attacking the Taiwanese people since before I was born. Ergo, you are the only one who thinks China is stupid enough to behave in a nonsensical manner.

Admire your certitude. An orange man in the White House could break NATO and say its an internal affair between China and Taiwan in no time... "China warns on Taiwan, South China Sea at Shangri-La forum" - https://www.voanews.com/a/china-warns-on-taiwan-south-china-... "Former U.S. President Trump Hints He Wouldn't Defend Taiwan From China" - https://youtu.be/5KEgY8FR51o

I am thoroughly enjoying wasting my time off dealing with your assertions. Like pigs, I enjoy being muddy. The man in the white house doesn't matter a flying flip with regards to treaty enforcement, and there's sufficient rule of law left in this country to correctly handle any Chinese aggression. Oh and the real reason China won't attack Taiwan is because the chip factories are rigged to explode and without that there's no reason to invade. But you already knew that, or should, with your illusion of expertise in this matter.

Re: China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,120 missiles

#42

Post by r2_pilot »

fnalelal wrote: post #39
r2_pilot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While within the territory of China, the United States is sadly unable to fully protect the rights of oppressed humans, I am very happy that my tax dollars go to support innocent passage through the South China Sea, making a mockery of their so-called territorial claims that are consistently refuted by the UN. Here's my proof : "On 10 May[2024] , USS Halsey (DDG 97) asserted navigational rights and freedoms in the So…

I suspect China is building a big navy so they can start "asserting navigational rights and freedoms" in waters close to the US, Australia, etc.

Hey! Guess what? They're entirely within their rights to do so! We can even escort them with our own ships out at sea, since by definition these exercises occur in international waters! And if that changes, so does the US response.

Re: China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,120 missiles

#43

Post by jjk166 »

belter wrote: post #38
jjk166 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use it for what exactly? For decades the militaries of the world have subscribed to the theory of detterence - build up a force sufficiently large that no one in their right mind will try to attack you, and thus you don't need to fight. Under such a doctrine, the entire point of the massive spending is to not use it. As we see in Ukraine, the decision to try and flex military strength can be quite disastrous when you…

I don't understand why everybody keeps underestimating China. Their space programs started with second hand copies of Soyuz capsules, and now runs circles around the US Space program...

Their space program started with second hand copies of Soyuz, and they are still currently on copies of Soyuz.

But even if they were landing people on Mars right now, I don't see how that would be evidence they could win a nuclear war.

Re: China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,120 missiles

#44

Post by nikolay »

America shot itself in the foot! We have less and less people able to manufacture stuff, American work ethic is a thing of the past, and we funded the growth of China, which in the last 2 decades transformed itself of a great manufacturing power, which initially started by copying, but it's now leading including in the scientific discoveries area. Also, in order to the ties between Russia and Germany, we made a new union between Russia and China, which was the most stupid thing one could've come up with given Russian resources and Chinese manufacturing power! By trying to make Europe weak, we made China strong!

Re: China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,120 missiles

#45

Post by belter »

jjk166 wrote: post #43
belter wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why everybody keeps underestimating China. Their space programs started with second hand copies of Soyuz capsules, and now runs circles around the US Space program...

Their space program started with second hand copies of Soyuz, and they are still currently on copies of Soyuz. But even if they were landing people on Mars right now, I don't see how that would be evidence they could win a nuclear war.

> evidence they could win a nuclear war.

Well that escalated quickly! I think in that case, the artillery shell production will be last of our concerns.

I see different and more feasible scenarios: An unsatisfactory peace in Ukraine that will leave neither Russia or Ukraine happy.

Any political weakness or apathy from the US side, will be picked quickly by China as the best opportunity in 50 years...

China will progressively increase their exercises. First as like now to involve 50 airplanes and 20 ships...then 100 planes and 50 ships...then 250 planes and 100 ships, getting closer and closer to the last 20 to 25 miles of Taiwan, until the day the exercise will become an incursion, that goes for directly targeting heads of government. Probably by then hundreds of soldiers disguised as business men already will be in Taiwan.

Even if the US decides to intervene it will arrive days to weeks too late, and will make a big fuss but decide its not worth it. Specially if enough TSMC facilities are already running in the US.

You build a very strong army, either to defend or to attack. Nobody is a threat to China or want's anything from China, so they are not creating an army to defend assets...

Re: China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,120 missiles

#46

Post by belter »

r2_pilot wrote: post #41
belter wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admire your certitude. An orange man in the White House could break NATO and say its an internal affair between China and Taiwan in no time... "China warns on Taiwan, South China Sea at Shangri-La forum" - https://www.voanews.com/a/china-warns-on-taiwan-south-china-... "Former U.S. President Trump Hints He Wouldn't Defend Taiwan From China" - https://youtu.be/5KEgY8FR51o

I am thoroughly enjoying wasting my time off dealing with your assertions. Like pigs, I enjoy being muddy. The man in the white house doesn't matter a flying flip with regards to treaty enforcement, and there's sufficient rule of law left in this country to correctly handle any Chinese aggression. Oh and the real reason China won't attack Taiwan is because the chip factories are rigged to explode and without that the…

You speak like these people :-) https://youtu.be/P04pHRBmaaQ

Let me try: From the resplendent shores of freedom, the invincible alliance of the United States and Taiwan stands unbreakable! As waves crash upon the might of our union, China's endeavors will dissolve into the sands of futility....Together, fortified by the treaties of solidarity, we will witness the dawn of triumph over China ambitions over Taiwan. Long live the US Taiwan treaty!

Re: China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,120 missiles

#47

Post by Teever »

belter wrote: post #38
jjk166 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use it for what exactly? For decades the militaries of the world have subscribed to the theory of detterence - build up a force sufficiently large that no one in their right mind will try to attack you, and thus you don't need to fight. Under such a doctrine, the entire point of the massive spending is to not use it. As we see in Ukraine, the decision to try and flex military strength can be quite disastrous when you…

I don't understand why everybody keeps underestimating China. Their space programs started with second hand copies of Soyuz capsules, and now runs circles around the US Space program...

I think it's denial plain and simple.

Americans have been fed a steady stream of propaganda that they're the best at everything and that no one else in the world even comes close -- especially military stuff.

Some people just cannot conceive of a world where America isn't the best, especially militarily and they cannot conceive of a world where anyone else could ever close the gap.

America spent 20 years grinding down international good will and their armed forces in waste of time conflicts that went no where while China has spent their time fastidiously consolidating economic infrastructure to wage a long term war. What does America have to show for any of it?

Now I think it's definitely likely that America could muster up the strength to fight China, but that won't happen until enough people realize that they're facing legitimate existential threat.

Acknowledging that threat means fixing fundamental flaws in our modern economy and society -- We need wake the fuck up to the rampant corruption and graft in our society and get a manufacturing economy that benefits the little guy and not some grease-bag rent-seeking parasites who contribute nothing to society.

Re: China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,120 missiles

#48

Post by talldayo »

belter wrote: post #37
r2_pilot wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. The US has a treaty to defend Taiwan against foreign aggression. China has abstained from attacking the Taiwanese people since before I was born. Ergo, you are the only one who thinks China is stupid enough to behave in a nonsensical manner.

Admire your certitude. An orange man in the White House could break NATO and say its an internal affair between China and Taiwan in no time... "China warns on Taiwan, South China Sea at Shangri-La forum" - https://www.voanews.com/a/china-warns-on-taiwan-south-china-... "Former U.S. President Trump Hints He Wouldn't Defend Taiwan From China" - https://youtu.be/5KEgY8FR51o

Donald Trump says a lot of stuff that is intended to prey on the minds of the public. His words (let alone his signature on a treaty) mean nothing and can be revoked at any time. Until he actually does something, the singular value of statements like these is to make headlines. If everything Donald Trump said was written into policy, he'd have contradicted himself into anarchy.

The parent's line of logic is sound; the United States has fundamental interests in securing Taiwan's independence. They are one of the very few countries that would receive Israel-levels of international intervention if their sovereignty was threatened, and China knows that. A ground invasion under current conditions would be political and materiel suicide; you have to imagine apocalypse-level global malcontent before NATO would roll over and go ahead with China's reunification strategy.

Re: China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,120 missiles

#49

Post by Teever »

belter wrote: post #30
r2_pilot wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you telling me China built the largest navy in the world (hahahaha little pooh bear with small honey-pot syndrome) and now... Will use it in violation of international law? I don't believe you're high enough ranking in the Chinese military to be privvy to any such plans. You're welcome to come back with evidence, though.

> Will use it in violation of international law? Checks notes: ....Uyghur camps...Hong Kong...takes whole South China Sea... Yeap, my notes say it will.

It blows my mind how woefully ignorant people are about this.

Like think about it, you have an organization like the CCP that exists to exert control over 17% of the world's population and continues to deny them the basic human rights that every human being should be entitled to.

Can anyone seriously tell me that they're content to just do that to 17% of the world's population? Of course not. The fact that they haveb't extended their wretched grasp over the world isn't because they don't want to, it's that they can't do it yet.

The existance of monarchies and autocracies anywhere is a threat to the free world and the concepts of liberal democracy. Not only do we owe it to the people who live under repressive governments to free them but we owe it to ourselves to keep ourselves free.

Re: China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,120 missiles

#50

Post by belter »

talldayo wrote: post #48
belter wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admire your certitude. An orange man in the White House could break NATO and say its an internal affair between China and Taiwan in no time... "China warns on Taiwan, South China Sea at Shangri-La forum" - https://www.voanews.com/a/china-warns-on-taiwan-south-china-... "Former U.S. President Trump Hints He Wouldn't Defend Taiwan From China" - https://youtu.be/5KEgY8FR51o

Donald Trump says a lot of stuff that is intended to prey on the minds of the public. His words (let alone his signature on a treaty) mean nothing and can be revoked at any time. Until he actually does something, the singular value of statements like these is to make headlines. If everything Donald Trump said was written into policy, he'd have contradicted himself into anarchy. The parent's line of logic is sound; th…

Well the Pentagon seems to think they will.

"The Pentagon Is Freaking Out About a Potential War With China" - https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/06/09/america-we...

"...But a swift response may not be possible, in large part because of how shrunken the U.S. manufacturing base has become since the Cold War. All of a sudden, Washington is reckoning with the fact that so many parts and pieces of munitions, planes, and ships it needs are being manufactured overseas, including in China. Among the deficiencies: components of solid rocket motors, shell casings, machine tools, fuses and precursor elements to propellants and explosives, many of which are made in China and India..."

"Chinese President Xi Jinping has instructed the Chinese military to be prepared to invade Taiwan by 2027, Adm. John Aquilino, commander of U.S. Indo-Pacific Command, said." - https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/15243813

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