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A VC-funded startup called WhosHere is trying to steal my social network

brianhama.com

41–50 of 228 posts

Re: A VC-funded startup called WhosHere is trying to steal my social network

#42
post #9

Somewhat unrelated, but I ask the legal experts here. If someone sues you for some bogus claim, is it possible to submit a written plain english rebuttal and have the court throw it out before it gets too serious? I mean if I sue some company for something absurd and demand $10 million dollars, are they forced to actually entertain my lawsuit or can it be dismissed readily without a lawyer?

The short answer is this: It's possible, but hard to pull off.

First, you would have to do some basic research on court filing procedures. It's not rocket science, but you can't just pop an envelope in the mail addressed to the judge.

Once you figure out how to file documents for the case, you need to determine what type of documents to file. E.g. a motion to dismiss might be appropriate if you think the claim is utterly bogus.

It can be "plain English," as Smattiso suggested, and indeed, judges always appreciate clarity. Legalese isn't required, but valid legal reasoning is. Contrary to popular belief, "legal reasoning" doesn't have to be arcane. It's pretty much just a matter of using everyday logic to apply legal principles to the facts of the case.

It's a lot like learning to program. There's no magic involved. It's just a matter of reading the relevant documentation, looking at examples, and using your innate reasoning abilities to put something together in accordance with the rules. And yet, as with programming, reasoning and writing about the law take practice to do well. You can hack together a simple CRUD app with zero programming experience and a lot of motivation. But you wouldn't want to bet your entire net worth on it. Likewise for legal writing. You can spend a few evenings of hard work learning the anatomy of a motion to dismiss and the basics of trademark law, and then you can write your motion. But I wouldn't do it if my personal finances were on the line.

In a situation such as the OP describes, there is an additional challenge. According to the OP, the plaintiff is using and perhaps abusing quirks of court procedure to his advantage. (I'm referring to the bit about default judgement and the alleged absence of certain documents.) That, too, could in principal be dealt with by a non-lawyer, but it would be quite difficult. You'd have to learn a great deal about the finer points of court procedure. This is especially difficult because it's not uniform across jurisdictions.

EDIT: You would also need to determine whether this would constitute unlicensed practice of law in your jurisdiction. Generally, you're allowed to represent yourself in court ("pro se.") But the rules about representing your business are a little more complicated. Sometimes it's OK, sometimes it's not.

So, yes, you can sometimes write something up and get a case dismissed without hiring a lawyer, provided you're willing to learn a great deal very quickly. But you'd be taking a tremendous risk. Probably not a good idea.

Just to be clear: I'm not at all recommending that the OP do this. I'm just answering the question posed in the parent comment. The OP really does need a lawyer, especially considering the plaintiff has allegedly shown a willingness to play procedural games.

Re: A VC-funded startup called WhosHere is trying to steal my social network

#43
post #21

Wikipedia says that WhosHere was founded in 2008 and launched their app in 2009: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WhosHere If that's the case and their app predates Who's Near Me, I have to say that the OP is probably going to lose this. The names and apps certainly do seem confusingly similar.

The trademark wasn't filled until February 2010. http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4003:5a...

I am not a lawyer but have been involved in various trademark registrations and disputes.

The trademark is for the concatenation 'whoshere'. Given that both are common words obvious to the topic I would have thought the interpretation would be very narrow and 'who's near me' is suitably different. I certainly don't think you should give in to their somewhat extortionate demands.

Re: A VC-funded startup called WhosHere is trying to steal my social network

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want to completely buy in to one side's story without any context or response from the other side, then start a Kickstarter to fund a legal assault upon that company? Really? Not only are you surprisingly easily manipulated, apparently, don't you have better things to hack on?

You've posted two negative comments thus far. Your point is valid that one must hear both sides. Are you affiliated with either party? Disclaimer: I'm a random HN reader who has done work in the area of location aware computing. I have no connection with either party.

It concerns me that I'm attacked personally for advocating for common sense when it comes to the law. Being sued? Shut up. Don't post to HN. Don't comment on the case. Don't challenge the other party to Quake 3 on Twitter. Don't give people legal advice after saying "I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice". Stop being stupid.

This advice transcends my allegiance, which is to nobody involved in this discussion (and which doesn't matter at all, frankly), and I'm annoyed that you think I'm stupid enough to involve myself in something I'm personally vested in.

Re: A VC-funded startup called WhosHere is trying to steal my social network

#47
post #2

Sounds like he made the biggest mistake by caving the first time around. If he'd stood his ground at first, maybe pointed out if there was any potential for confusion (a key point in trademark law), it was the other way around, as he was the one with an established user base and a 10-year history.

He says he made the app 2 years ago, where as WhosHere is from 2008. If it is in fact a trademark issue, sounds to me like they beat him to the name.

This is what bothered me about the whole post. He never once said how old the other company is. A critical (purposeful?) omission.

Re: A VC-funded startup called WhosHere is trying to steal my social network

#48
post #38

General advice for legal questions: it's fine to ask these sorts of questions, but please, for the love of god, don't listen to anyone who isn't a lawyer or who hasn't gone through something very similar to what you're going through. And, even in those cases, take their advice with a HUGE grain of salt. (If you disagree, please see below, where OP is variously advised to (1) commit unlicensed practice of law [serious…

I wish your comment was the only one, frankly, and we could really use a "you are not a lawyer, stop pretending to be one" guideline.

Edit: I've made a "Ask PG" to ask for just that: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4055661

Re: A VC-funded startup called WhosHere is trying to steal my social network

#49
post #30

I never went to law school so there's no way I could be a lawyer, I'm just giving my thoughts on things I would do in this situation. This isn't legal advice. I sympathize with your situation and I'm sure there are a couple lessons learned here- namely that they used negotiation with email to apparently cause you to forget that there was court case pending. But saying that doesn't help you. I've been in the situation…

I appreciate what you're doing, but you just wrote an essay full of legal advice, including conclusions on how the proceedings will go -- something you really shouldn't predict. By putting the words "this isn't legal advice" before your comment, you aren't magically making it okay to give your opinion in the guise of advice. Just be aware of that.

How messed up is it that someone can't share what they know (or think they know) because they don't have a credential?

Edit: I'm convinced. Don't give or accept legal advice over the Internet. Establish a relationship with an attorney and only discuss it with them. If you don't like the answers they give you, you can find another attorney.

Re: A VC-funded startup called WhosHere is trying to steal my social network

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate what you're doing, but you just wrote an essay full of legal advice, including conclusions on how the proceedings will go -- something you really shouldn't predict. By putting the words "this isn't legal advice" before your comment, you aren't magically making it okay to give your opinion in the guise of advice. Just be aware of that.

How messed up is it that someone can't share what they know (or think they know) because they don't have a credential? Edit: I'm convinced. Don't give or accept legal advice over the Internet. Establish a relationship with an attorney and only discuss it with them. If you don't like the answers they give you, you can find another attorney.

In this case, there are legal repercussions and serious consequences to doing most of things on this page. This is stuff to talk about with a lawyer, not the fucking Internet, and the person I replied to is already giving frighteningly bad advice.

You know how in criminal proceedings, they say "anything you say can and will be used against you?" It's the exact same for civil actions like this, which is why Public Relations 101 (which should be of interest to most in this audience who want to do their own startup) says "being sued or otherwise challenged legally? STFU. No comment."

This isn't about credentials, it's about being smart when it comes to threats that can genuinely hose your business, and not listening to a bunch of armchair lawyers on HN who think they have the best course of action without any sort of context.

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