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Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

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Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#71

Post by dalke »

allears wrote: post #2

This has been true for a very long time. It's not a modern phenomenon. There was probably a "golden age" in the middle of the last century when it was a good idea to be a company man. But before that, and after that once the MBA mentality took over, workers have been treated like disposable units. It only makes sense for a worker to strategize to maximize their own career and income, instead of placing their loyaltie…

I'm old enough that my father worked for one of those "golden age" companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wometco_Enterprises

It was a conglomerate, starting with theaters then adding TV and other entertainment, plus soft drink bottling and more.

The individual companies were well funded, they had plenty of staff, and there cross-company staff discounts. My dad worked for the TV station WTVJ and we got discounts to go to the movie theaters owned by Wometco.

There was a yearly Christmas party for staff and family, and the Wometco would be flown in by helicopter, dressed as Santa.

After his death it got bought by KKR in a LBO, split up, and sold for parts. Staff was greatly reduced and overworked. The Christmas party was no more.

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#72

Post by Sirizarry »

leereeves wrote: post #66
Gud wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a natural progression where technology has improved production increases. However since the workers of the world have a very limited share of the ownership of the means of production, they don’t get anything from this increase in production output.

Ok, but who is behind enshittification, planned obsolescence, corporate consolidation, private equity raiding, brand value extraction, etc...

You don’t understand, it can’t be MBA types because it’s just the natural progression of the world to become worse and worse. Obvious right? Now sit down and consume.

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#74

Post by abdusco »

afavour wrote: post #25
Apreche wrote: post #11

Facts. The biggest career mistake I made was staying at one place for too long. It was comfortable and solid. I got complacent. I didn't think I could do better. I was wrong. I've changed jobs twice since then, and both have been big upgrades. If your employer isn't significantly rewarding loyalty, I highly recommend at least looking to see what's out there. You aren't forced to go, but be open to new opportunities.…

My employer has increasing vacation over the years, start with 3 weeks but you’re up to 5 when you’ve been there a decade. IMO that’s a very undervalued proposition that makes me want to stick around longer than I might otherwise. There’s a dollar value that would trump it of course but it’s pretty high.

I am asking because I never tried this. Isn't it better to earn more and take unpaid leaves than having 2 more weeks of paid leaves? 2 weeks of extra unpaid leave = 1/2 a month's pay, meaning you could afford to do it if you earn 4% more yearly.

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#75

Post by justin66 »

RoyalHenOil wrote: post #37
justin66 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's say that you are a doctor and you live in a town of 20,000 people with one hospital. You are stuck being "loyal" to that hospital unless you move. It’s tangential to the main point of your hypothetical, but: in many states that small town doctor’s salary is a multiple of what it would be in an urban or suburban area, and he’s chosen to live there because he’s making a ton of money.

Even of he's only paid the same, the cost of living is lower in the small town than in the big city. Even doctors get priced out of expensive areas.

That’s not what I’m talking about. In my state, experienced specialists make millions working at hospitals in rural areas. Think between three and five times what they’d make doing the same work in a city.

Perhaps a bit of a digression…

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#76

Post by oooyay »

dalke wrote: post #71
allears wrote: post #2

This has been true for a very long time. It's not a modern phenomenon. There was probably a "golden age" in the middle of the last century when it was a good idea to be a company man. But before that, and after that once the MBA mentality took over, workers have been treated like disposable units. It only makes sense for a worker to strategize to maximize their own career and income, instead of placing their loyaltie…

I'm old enough that my father worked for one of those "golden age" companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wometco_Enterprises It was a conglomerate, starting with theaters then adding TV and other entertainment, plus soft drink bottling and more. The individual companies were well funded, they had plenty of staff, and there cross-company staff discounts. My dad worked for the TV station WTVJ and we got discounts to…

My dad worked for Borden and Kraft, which were similar. They were also bought and split up by KKR.

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#77

Post by Havoc »

ruszki wrote: post #70
Havoc wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hn. Everything bad about modern capitalism is apparently the fault of mba people. (No I didn’t do a mba)

I worked for several small projects and startups. All of them became shitter for employees when MBA people took over.

>All of them became shitter for employees

You don't hire MBAs to improve employee experience

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#78

Post by Jensson »

leereeves wrote: post #66
Gud wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a natural progression where technology has improved production increases. However since the workers of the world have a very limited share of the ownership of the means of production, they don’t get anything from this increase in production output.

Ok, but who is behind enshittification, planned obsolescence, corporate consolidation, private equity raiding, brand value extraction, etc...

That comes from buying companies, not owning companies. I think the stock market is the biggest problem, or for the housing situation companies buying a large number of houses is the biggest problem, or for medicine buying up patents to rack up prices is the problem, or for software buying up games/programs and filling them with spyware is the problem etc.

Builders typically aren't that evil, but builders sell to exploiters who are evil and exploit it as much as possible. You see this everywhere, that extra level of indirection where you aren't fine with exploiting people but you are fine selling your work to those who do exploit people. Exploiters are a tiny minority of people, but that is enough since they can buy up all the assets to exploit and thus become very wealthy.

Edit; And yes, those exploiters often have MBA degrees. Not everyone with such degrees of course, but the overlap seems pretty large.

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#79

Post by _nalply »

leereeves wrote: post #66
Gud wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a natural progression where technology has improved production increases. However since the workers of the world have a very limited share of the ownership of the means of production, they don’t get anything from this increase in production output.

Ok, but who is behind enshittification, planned obsolescence, corporate consolidation, private equity raiding, brand value extraction, etc...

It's profit. Revenue minus expenses. Companies that optimize profit better than other companies are more successful. Emergent behaviour like evolution. Companies that don't optimize will not grow as much or even decline or disappear. It's self-selecting.

Planned obsolescence, private equity raiding, brand value extraction: these are steps to increase revenue.

Enshittification, corporate consolidation: these are steps to decrease expenses.

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#80

Post by afavour »

pokerface_86 wrote: post #60
afavour wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My employer has increasing vacation over the years, start with 3 weeks but you’re up to 5 when you’ve been there a decade. IMO that’s a very undervalued proposition that makes me want to stick around longer than I might otherwise. There’s a dollar value that would trump it of course but it’s pretty high.

bro, i am 21 and a fresh graduate and i get 24 days of PTO at my job , 5 weeks really isn’t that crazy.

Bro, I promise you that at some point you're going to have to make a choice between various factors like salary, PTO etc.

Happy for you that you get 24 days in your first job after college graduation but I promise you there is a lot for you to learn yet.

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