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Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

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Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#11

Post by Apreche »

Facts. The biggest career mistake I made was staying at one place for too long. It was comfortable and solid. I got complacent. I didn't think I could do better. I was wrong.

I've changed jobs twice since then, and both have been big upgrades. If your employer isn't significantly rewarding loyalty, I highly recommend at least looking to see what's out there. You aren't forced to go, but be open to new opportunities. An upgrade is likely to come.

If any of my employers had pensions or other such loyalty programs, I wouldn't have had reason to constantly seek greener pastures.

I find it interesting that this article talks about pensions, but then suggests other ideas besides pensions as ways to get loyal employees. I agree that things like sabbaticals are a good idea. I would love to have that as an option. But I would love a pension program as strong as the ones my grandparents had even more. They aren't illegal or anything now that 401ks exist. Companies are still allowed to make them. Just almost none of them do.

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#12

Post by throwawaysleep »

DataDive wrote: post #10

I read it a bit, but it seems the article is little more than a single person's anecdotal observations. I tuned out after reading about 40% ... there is no conclusive evidence presented, just one person's observations over their career ... then you get things like: > The older I get, the more I understand what's been broken well ... yeah, that's how it works

Here is the evidence:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2014/06/22/employee...

Make half the money if you are a two year or more employee.

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#14

Post by PartiallyTyped »

zero-sharp wrote: post #8
rr808 wrote: post #6

The other point specifically for devs is how interviewing is such a different skill to normal work. The people with the best careers are almost always interviewing. If you constantly using that muscle you get really good. The guy I know who stayed in the same role for 15 years and got laid off is screwed because he's a great developer but doesn't know any of that stuff.

Yea, but who wants to be always interviewing? That sounds terrible. At some point your life is going to have different priorities.

Always can mean every 2 or so months.

To be honest, the dynamics change completely when you are not in-need of work. What is a matter of ensuring one's livelihood quickly transforms to a friendly conversation with potential colleagues. The stress of finding a job is replaced by novelty and curiosity, by opportunity for something new.

"Proactive Serendipity" [1] is a great way to live by in my opinion. In essence, you should put yourself in the position to get lucky. Not interviewing or at least not being open to interviewing is an easy way to close doors that you may not know existed.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsFk8SKYSDg

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#15

Post by ink_13 »

zero-sharp wrote: post #8
rr808 wrote: post #6

The other point specifically for devs is how interviewing is such a different skill to normal work. The people with the best careers are almost always interviewing. If you constantly using that muscle you get really good. The guy I know who stayed in the same role for 15 years and got laid off is screwed because he's a great developer but doesn't know any of that stuff.

Yea, but who wants to be always interviewing? That sounds terrible. At some point your life is going to have different priorities.

One hack I've seen is to be the interviewer, not the interviewee

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#16

Post by throwawaysleep »

zero-sharp wrote: post #8
rr808 wrote: post #6

The other point specifically for devs is how interviewing is such a different skill to normal work. The people with the best careers are almost always interviewing. If you constantly using that muscle you get really good. The guy I know who stayed in the same role for 15 years and got laid off is screwed because he's a great developer but doesn't know any of that stuff.

Yea, but who wants to be always interviewing? That sounds terrible. At some point your life is going to have different priorities.

Always interview, be overemployed as a C player at the jobs you get, retire early.

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#17

Post by kevinventullo »

allears wrote: post #2

This has been true for a very long time. It's not a modern phenomenon. There was probably a "golden age" in the middle of the last century when it was a good idea to be a company man. But before that, and after that once the MBA mentality took over, workers have been treated like disposable units. It only makes sense for a worker to strategize to maximize their own career and income, instead of placing their loyaltie…

actively propagandizes in an attempt to make its workers feel like "family."

In my experience, post-COVID they’ve given up even maintaining that illusion.

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#18

Post by pacbard »

I wonder how much the loyalty of the "good old days" was due to a smaller local labor market for skilled jobs.

Let's say that you are a doctor and you live in a town of 20,000 people with one hospital. You are stuck being "loyal" to that hospital unless you move. Now let's say that you live in a metropolis of 2 million people and multiple hospitals. That gives you the option to move between jobs if they become available.

My impression is that cities and towns used to be smaller in the past and commuter culture wasn't as popular as it is now.

I'm ok looking at the past with rose-tinted glasses, but context is also needed to understand the decisions that people made back then.

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#19

Post by ghaff »

Apreche wrote: post #11

Facts. The biggest career mistake I made was staying at one place for too long. It was comfortable and solid. I got complacent. I didn't think I could do better. I was wrong. I've changed jobs twice since then, and both have been big upgrades. If your employer isn't significantly rewarding loyalty, I highly recommend at least looking to see what's out there. You aren't forced to go, but be open to new opportunities.…

Was having this conversation recently with a benefits expert I know. Traditional benefit plans that were basically worthless unless you stayed in the same place for a minimum of a decade are mostly worthless today. But there are apparently a lot of newer-style defined benefit plans that are more flexible.

Re: Loyalty at work no longer pays – and it's employers who are to blame

#20

Post by afavour »

rr808 wrote: post #6

The other point specifically for devs is how interviewing is such a different skill to normal work. The people with the best careers are almost always interviewing. If you constantly using that muscle you get really good. The guy I know who stayed in the same role for 15 years and got laid off is screwed because he's a great developer but doesn't know any of that stuff.

Eh. I really don’t think it takes that much to get into the swing of interviews. Developers sometimes suffer with them because our jobs make it easy to be introverted and avoid personal contact. As long as you’re regularly using your social “muscle” at work (which is always always a good career move no matter what) applying that same energy to an interview isn’t such a huge lift.
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