IE10 to send "Do Not Track" DNT header by default • Hacker News Board

Re: IE10 to send "Do Not Track" DNT header by default

#11

Post by powertower » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 6:12 PM UTC

singingwolfboy wrote: post #6

This is a really bad idea. Most people don't change defaults -- the idea behind DNT is that the people who care about privacy can easily take steps to assure their own privacy. As long as businesses know that browsers sending the DNT header are sending it intentionally , there's a chance that websites will respect it. With this change, DNT becomes meaningless. How can businesses determine which users are OK with bein…

If you ask 10 people whether they want websites to track them, and 9 say no, why shouldn't this be default behavior?

Re: IE10 to send "Do Not Track" DNT header by default

#12

Post by ktsmith » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 6:13 PM UTC

jlarocco wrote: post #10

singingwolfboy wrote: post #6

This is a really bad idea. Most people don't change defaults -- the idea behind DNT is that the people who care about privacy can easily take steps to assure their own privacy. As long as businesses know that browsers sending the DNT header are sending it intentionally , there's a chance that websites will respect it. With this change, DNT becomes meaningless. How can businesses determine which users are OK with bein…

I had the exact opposite feeling. First, everybody cares about privacy. Just because businesses have taken advantage of users being clueless, doesn't mean those clueless people don't care about privacy. Second, your "nobody knows about it" argument can cut the other way. How can a business track people when most people don't know/care that they can opt out of being tracked? Nobody wants to mention it, but the truth i…

I spent several years working for a marketing firm and based on my experience with the industry I would guess that there will be no adoption of honoring these tags if they are sent by default unless it becomes legally mandated.

Re: IE10 to send "Do Not Track" DNT header by default

#13

Post by lomegor » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 6:14 PM UTC

ch0wn wrote: post #4

Oh wow, I haven't seen a page that destroyed by Chrome's default to not load insecure content like this one. http://imgur.com/qfdqG

I've seen worse. Agh, I can't find it now... but some Microsoft website for developers... can't remember which one though.

Re: IE10 to send "Do Not Track" DNT header by default

#14

Post by magicalist » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 6:15 PM UTC

Mozilla's reaction: http://blog.mozilla.org/privacy/2012/05/31/do-not-track-its-...

"There are three different signals to consider in broadcasting the user’s preferences for tracking:

  User says they accept tracking
  User says they reject tracking
  User hasn’t chosen anything

Firefox defaults to state 3: we don’t know what the user wants, so we’re not sending any signals to servers. This causes the presence of the signal to mean more — the signal being sent should be the user’s choice, not ours. Therefore, Firefox doesn’t broadcast anything until our user has told us what to send."

Re: IE10 to send "Do Not Track" DNT header by default

#15

Post by lomegor » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 6:17 PM UTC

jlarocco wrote: post #10

singingwolfboy wrote: post #6

This is a really bad idea. Most people don't change defaults -- the idea behind DNT is that the people who care about privacy can easily take steps to assure their own privacy. As long as businesses know that browsers sending the DNT header are sending it intentionally , there's a chance that websites will respect it. With this change, DNT becomes meaningless. How can businesses determine which users are OK with bein…

I had the exact opposite feeling. First, everybody cares about privacy. Just because businesses have taken advantage of users being clueless, doesn't mean those clueless people don't care about privacy. Second, your "nobody knows about it" argument can cut the other way. How can a business track people when most people don't know/care that they can opt out of being tracked? Nobody wants to mention it, but the truth i…

If you say everybody cares about privacy you should back that up (unless you are using privacy in the general term and not for this specific example). I, for one, do not care about site tracking; in fact, I would gladly opt in to any such service if I see it fit. And I know a lot of people who also do not care about tracking.

Re: IE10 to send "Do Not Track" DNT header by default

#16

Post by cooldeal » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 6:27 PM UTC

eli wrote: post #8

Seems like a terrible idea. I think the vast majority of online marketing companies are very willing to let people opt-out of tracking [1], but people who haven't expressed a preference? If DNT header becomes the default for browsers then I predict ignoring DNT will become the default for ad networks. [1] http://www.networkadvertising.org/managing/opt_out.asp

In that case I hope someone makes an extension that blocks ads from such networks by default.

Re: IE10 to send "Do Not Track" DNT header by default

#17

Post by magicalist » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 6:29 PM UTC

magicalist wrote: post #14

Mozilla's reaction: http://blog.mozilla.org/privacy/2012/05/31/do-not-track-its-... "There are three different signals to consider in broadcasting the user’s preferences for tracking: User says they accept tracking User says they reject tracking User hasn’t chosen anything Firefox defaults to state 3: we don’t know what the user wants, so we’re not sending any signals to servers. This causes the presence of the signa…

also, from this Microsoft's post:

"At the moment there is not yet an agreed definition of how to respond to a DNT signal, and we know that a uniform, industry-wide response will be the best way to provide a consistent consumer experience across the Web.... Microsoft does not yet respond to the DNT signal, but we are actively working with other advertising industry leaders on what an implementation plan for DNT might look like, with a goal of announcing more details about our plans in the coming months."

Brilliant, guys. I'm really excited that you're fully embracing something you have no clue how it's actually going to work. Instead of giving yourself an out, why not just commit to an aggressive interpretation of "do not track" on the server side as well?

(to be fair, when you wait two years between browser releases, you do have to try to aim where the market is moving towards, rather than where it is)

Re: IE10 to send "Do Not Track" DNT header by default

#18

Post by recoiledsnake » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 6:29 PM UTC

magicalist wrote: post #14

Mozilla's reaction: http://blog.mozilla.org/privacy/2012/05/31/do-not-track-its-... "There are three different signals to consider in broadcasting the user’s preferences for tracking: User says they accept tracking User says they reject tracking User hasn’t chosen anything Firefox defaults to state 3: we don’t know what the user wants, so we’re not sending any signals to servers. This causes the presence of the signa…

>we don’t know what the user wants

How about they ask their users on first install?

Re: IE10 to send "Do Not Track" DNT header by default

#19

Post by lmkg » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 6:31 PM UTC

I'm not normally one for tinfoil-hat theories... but given that "online advertising" is basically synonymous with Google, how does this decision impact Google?

Re: IE10 to send "Do Not Track" DNT header by default

#20

Post by cooldeal » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 6:33 PM UTC

recoiledsnake wrote: post #18

magicalist wrote: post #14

Mozilla's reaction: http://blog.mozilla.org/privacy/2012/05/31/do-not-track-its-... "There are three different signals to consider in broadcasting the user’s preferences for tracking: User says they accept tracking User says they reject tracking User hasn’t chosen anything Firefox defaults to state 3: we don’t know what the user wants, so we’re not sending any signals to servers. This causes the presence of the signa…

>we don’t know what the user wants How about they ask their users on first install?

Unlikely to happen, since all their revenue of more than hundred million dollars a year comes from Google, which stands to lose big if that feature is implemented.

Opera and Chrome stand to lose too, so that won't happen there. Bing's revenues(and MSN.com etc.) also stand to lose with it, but looks like MS is okay with it.

The only exception with no stake in all this is Apple, which has already implemented third party cookie blocking in iPhone Safari(and Google got some heat for circumventing it).

Edit: On further thought, Apple does get a cut from Google being the default search, but it's probably such a miniscule part of their revenues that they can easily forgo in the name of doing the right thing for their users.