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Brave launches Search Ads in key markets after successful test phase

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Re: Brave launches Search Ads in key markets after successful test phase

#81

Post by roenxi »

Krasnol wrote: post #20
tialaramex wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertising is potentially useful, it's the scale that's a problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPGgTy5YJ-g Like, "Every inch of the new park is covered in sponsor branding" is a problem, but "I had no idea that a store selling towels opened in our town" is also a problem. These are both advertising, at some point you cross from "I didn't know about that, thanks" to "Just fuck off already" and that's too much adv…

I already googled for towel shops. Just like everybody else would do. I had to accept the manipulated results and most probably even fell for it. So why would I need even more ads for the new towel store?

The first practical answer is without ads there wouldn't be a Google. The reason the search index is commercially viable is because it shows ads. The second is maybe you don't know what a towel is, there are a lot born every minute. The third is maybe you won't think of buying a towel - even if you need it - without prompting which I suspect is the case for most people.

I also don't understand the general hate some people have for websites that are commercially viable without charging an entrance fee. Ads are better than the next-best option.

Re: Brave launches Search Ads in key markets after successful test phase

#82

Post by worksonmine »

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #73
worksonmine wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Mistake = malware? The bug (YES BUG) only affected a couple of crypto exchange URLs, So why make it such a huge deal? Brave has stopped the affiliate links business since then. It also happened when Brave was like 6 months old. Their whole business is based around privacy. Are they really that desparate for the small affiliate commission? I'm sure there are better and more 'malware' like ways to earn money.

> Mistake = malware?

The mistake was a business decision. Redirecting users to their affiliate links was on purpose.

> Are they really that desparate for the small affiliate commission?

Yes. That's exactly what they did. The CEO mentioned himself that they were looking for revenue streams. What's your stake in this?

Re: Brave launches Search Ads in key markets after successful test phase

#83

Post by Krasnol »

roenxi wrote: post #81
Krasnol wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already googled for towel shops. Just like everybody else would do. I had to accept the manipulated results and most probably even fell for it. So why would I need even more ads for the new towel store?

The first practical answer is without ads there wouldn't be a Google. The reason the search index is commercially viable is because it shows ads. The second is maybe you don't know what a towel is, there are a lot born every minute. The third is maybe you won't think of buying a towel - even if you need it - without prompting which I suspect is the case for most people. I also don't understand the general hate some p…

What you actually miss here is the fact that we're getting MORE ads all the time.

It doesn't stop because the shareholders demand more money.

It's not about how google wouldn't be able to exist. They can surely exist as a search engine. It's not that expensive. It's about how google is getting worse and worse because of the greed in this sick system. This is what people hate. There were ads from the beginning on, but it was never so bad as it has become today.

Besides that: advertising is stealing my attention. Not only on the internet (where I just use ublock) but everywhere else. It's a disease. It penetrates my brain. I never asked for this. I feel violated by this industry which single aim it is to do just that and as effective as possible.

I despise it.

Re: Brave launches Search Ads in key markets after successful test phase

#84

Post by roenxi »

Krasnol wrote: post #83
roenxi wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first practical answer is without ads there wouldn't be a Google. The reason the search index is commercially viable is because it shows ads. The second is maybe you don't know what a towel is, there are a lot born every minute. The third is maybe you won't think of buying a towel - even if you need it - without prompting which I suspect is the case for most people. I also don't understand the general hate some p…

What you actually miss here is the fact that we're getting MORE ads all the time. It doesn't stop because the shareholders demand more money. It's not about how google wouldn't be able to exist. They can surely exist as a search engine. It's not that expensive. It's about how google is getting worse and worse because of the greed in this sick system. This is what people hate. There were ads from the beginning on, but…

> It's not about how google wouldn't be able to exist. They can surely exist as a search engine. It's not that expensive.

How do you expect them to earn money? The reality of the situation is pretty clear on this one, it is ad-supported or irrelevance for search engines. We've been watching this market play out for more than 2 decades.

> What you actually miss here is the fact that we're getting MORE ads all the time.

I'm not missing it, I just don't see why you care. I can understand using an ad-blocker, but to get worked up because a site shows ads to support itself is entitled to the point where it is stupid. Ads mean that freeloaders get something good for free, and the people who pay obviously believe they got a valuable service from the ads, or they wouldn't have bought the advertised thing.

Re: Brave launches Search Ads in key markets after successful test phase

#85

Post by NayamAmarshe »

worksonmine wrote: post #82
NayamAmarshe wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mistake = malware? The bug (YES BUG) only affected a couple of crypto exchange URLs, So why make it such a huge deal? Brave has stopped the affiliate links business since then. It also happened when Brave was like 6 months old. Their whole business is based around privacy. Are they really that desparate for the small affiliate commission? I'm sure there are better and more 'malware' like ways to earn money.

> Mistake = malware? The mistake was a business decision. Redirecting users to their affiliate links was on purpose. > Are they really that desparate for the small affiliate commission? Yes. That's exactly what they did. The CEO mentioned himself that they were looking for revenue streams. What's your stake in this?

1. The business decision was to provide affiliate links as a suggestion, not replace the queries by default. This is proven by the fact that all the money making features in Brave are disabled by default and are opt-in.

2. Brendan Eich never said that it was supposed to be turned on by default, hence a bug.

3. Brave stopped the affiliate link partnership.

4. Brave is the only mainstream browser at the moment that does not advertise in the address bar. Even Firefox runs ads there BY DEFAULT!

I don't see what one gets from being so biased against a browser company that fixed a bug even before it became a news?

Re: Brave launches Search Ads in key markets after successful test phase

#87

Post by Krasnol »

roenxi wrote: post #84
Krasnol wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you actually miss here is the fact that we're getting MORE ads all the time. It doesn't stop because the shareholders demand more money. It's not about how google wouldn't be able to exist. They can surely exist as a search engine. It's not that expensive. It's about how google is getting worse and worse because of the greed in this sick system. This is what people hate. There were ads from the beginning on, but…

> It's not about how google wouldn't be able to exist. They can surely exist as a search engine. It's not that expensive. How do you expect them to earn money? The reality of the situation is pretty clear on this one, it is ad-supported or irrelevance for search engines. We've been watching this market play out for more than 2 decades. > What you actually miss here is the fact that we're getting MORE ads all the time…

> How do you expect them to earn money?

By manipulating the order of search results, of course.

> The reality of the situation is pretty clear on this one, it is ad-supported or irrelevance for search engines. We've been watching this market play out for more than 2 decades.

There is no "market". There is google. Searching the internet is googling. If they'd just split out the search business today from the whole Alphabet clutter, they would keep on living. They might not generate more profit every quarter, but if they don't have shareholders with a gun at their back, it should be OK and people would still be kept on googling. I'm pretty sure if they'd focus on making search results better, they'd even become more popular.

> I can understand using an ad-blocker, but to get worked up because a site shows ads to support itself is entitled to the point where it is stupid.

Come on...it's not like in the 90s, where you had to have an ad to pay for the hosting. We're beyond this. You get ads because of ads and the revenue you get on top of whatever you are selling.

> Ads mean that freeloaders get something good for free,

They don't get it for free. They pay with their data and attention. Not only that, but they're being profiled, rated and assessed, and it's not like they become free of that if they pay. The ad-machine is all over the place. You constantly pay while what you get back is less and less. See those huge media platforms.

Ads has become a thing where paying for content was just not manageable in proper time. You had to wire money or send it in a letter. Now, things changed, but somehow it is too late. You can and do pay, and you're still served ads and pay with your data and attention on top. It's not about covering costs anymore. It's about giving less for more profits. Every quarter.

As I said before: It's a disease.

Re: Brave launches Search Ads in key markets after successful test phase

#88

Post by worksonmine »

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #85
worksonmine wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mistake = malware? The mistake was a business decision. Redirecting users to their affiliate links was on purpose. > Are they really that desparate for the small affiliate commission? Yes. That's exactly what they did. The CEO mentioned himself that they were looking for revenue streams. What's your stake in this?

1. The business decision was to provide affiliate links as a suggestion, not replace the queries by default. This is proven by the fact that all the money making features in Brave are disabled by default and are opt-in. 2. Brendan Eich never said that it was supposed to be turned on by default, hence a bug. 3. Brave stopped the affiliate link partnership. 4. Brave is the only mainstream browser at the moment that doe…

You're really grasping for straws here to defend this. I'll explain:

> 2. Brendan Eich never said that it was supposed to be turned on by default, hence a bug.

What are you even arguing against here? Turned on by default? Who was it supposed to be on for according to you?

> 3. Brave stopped the affiliate link partnership.

After the backlash they realized how stupid it was, apologized and removed the feature (not bug) yes. The articles from the time are still around, quotes and everything.

> 4. Brave is the only mainstream browser at the moment that does not advertise in the address bar. Even Firefox runs ads there BY DEFAULT!

Whataboutism, stay on topic.

> I don't see what one gets from being so biased against a browser company that fixed a bug even before it became a news?

It's not a bias, they crossed every line possible. My browser is not supposed to fuck with my requests, ever. No excuses. They considered it a good choice at the time and I will keep reminding people every time brave comes up. But you shouldn't worry, that means you'll still have a job hunting down such comments to damage control.

Re: Brave launches Search Ads in key markets after successful test phase

#89

Post by Takennickname »

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #10
Takennickname wrote: post #5

Does Brave ad blocker block these ads? Or does it only block competing ads?

Brave does not block native ads (except for Google’s) on any website. All third party embedded ads are blocked by default.

So it blocks Google search ads, but not brave search ads?

Re: Brave launches Search Ads in key markets after successful test phase

#90

Post by NayamAmarshe »

worksonmine wrote: post #88
NayamAmarshe wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The business decision was to provide affiliate links as a suggestion, not replace the queries by default. This is proven by the fact that all the money making features in Brave are disabled by default and are opt-in. 2. Brendan Eich never said that it was supposed to be turned on by default, hence a bug. 3. Brave stopped the affiliate link partnership. 4. Brave is the only mainstream browser at the moment that doe…

You're really grasping for straws here to defend this. I'll explain: > 2. Brendan Eich never said that it was supposed to be turned on by default, hence a bug. What are you even arguing against here? Turned on by default? Who was it supposed to be on for according to you? > 3. Brave stopped the affiliate link partnership. After the backlash they realized how stupid it was, apologized and removed the feature (not bug)…

> It's not a bias, they crossed every line possible. My browser is not supposed to with my requests, ever. No excuses. They considered it a good choice at the time and I will keep reminding people every time brave comes up. But you shouldn't worry, that means you'll still have a job hunting down such comments to damage control.

All this rage is pointless. The issue is literally on GitHub and was created by Brave's engineer himself. Fixed and merged on day 1, in the nightly, even before anybody ever found it. So all your points are just biased and not worthwhile to discuss.

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