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60 kHz (2022)

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Re: 60 kHz (2022)

#61

Post by layman51 »

anyfoo wrote: post #2

> I’m not particularly patriotic, but this kind of thing feels particularly American. ??? America has no doubt done some very remarkable things (the moon landing, the first backward compatible color TV standard), but I don't think this is a notable example of that. I think everyone in Europe was familiar with even wristwatches getting the time from "airwaves". At least in Germany, watches were a very common thing sin…

I wondered about its American origins too. I vaguely remember a little detail in the novel Cryptonomicon where one of the characters (a Lieutenant in the Imperial Japanese Army during WWII) sets his watch with a radio time signal. So that got me thinking that maybe the idea arose in different places.

Also I was wondering about the “forever” wording. I imagine the signal is very robust, but couldn’t American politics just one day decide that it’s not worth it to broadcast the time by radio signal anymore?

Re: 60 kHz (2022)

#62

Post by BenjiWiebe »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #55
lxgr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The agency running the German equivalent to WWVB, DCF77, has looked into piggybacking an emergency warning signal onto unused bits of the time signal: https://www.ptb.de/cms/en/presseaktuelles/journals-magazines... These days though, a more popular idea seem to be to piggy back onto GNSS signals, which are also broadly available (no idea how well they compare in practice to low frequency time beacons), and for which…

> a more popular idea seem to be to piggy back onto GNSS signals Don’t all GNSS systems provide a highly accurate time signal (maybe needed for computing the distance to satellite)? I know GPS does at least.

Yes, it is needed to compute a location. More accurate time = more accurate location.

Re: 60 kHz (2022)

#63

Post by lxgr »

V99 wrote: post #44
lxgr wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the equivalent European signal I'm familiar with only covers a single timezone, with unified DST rules, I'm curious: Do these usually have an adjustment button for a time zone offset? And how do they handle DST – do they have an "I'm in Arizona (but not in the Navajo Nation), leave me on standard time" switch?

They usually have an offset and a DST option. So in Arizona you'd choose -7/Off, and never touch it again. In Colorado you'll have to toggle DST twice a year manually, because it doesn't know the rules for when it starts/ends.

Oh, is there no “DST in effect” flag in the signal?

As I understand it, the US switches at the same day across the country (for the states that do have it), so that should theoretically be possible.

Re: 60 kHz (2022)

#64

Post by lxgr »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #55
lxgr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The agency running the German equivalent to WWVB, DCF77, has looked into piggybacking an emergency warning signal onto unused bits of the time signal: https://www.ptb.de/cms/en/presseaktuelles/journals-magazines... These days though, a more popular idea seem to be to piggy back onto GNSS signals, which are also broadly available (no idea how well they compare in practice to low frequency time beacons), and for which…

> a more popular idea seem to be to piggy back onto GNSS signals Don’t all GNSS systems provide a highly accurate time signal (maybe needed for computing the distance to satellite)? I know GPS does at least.

Yes, the GPS signal in a way is primarily a very precise time signal :) It’s a TDOA system!

I was referring to piggying back an emergency signal onto that!

Re: 60 kHz (2022)

#65

Post by [deleted] »

alright2565 wrote: post #36
frankus wrote: post #13

It's kind of baffling that in 2024 there are appliances that exist for which I have to manually set the time, or at least have to go through some cumbersome IoT set-up process, that most likely is absolute garbage security-wise if it isn't actively acting against my interests (like those fridges that only work with first-party water filters). Maybe I'm under-thinking this, but couldn't my Wi-Fi router just broadcast…

It is baffling that in 2024 that my appliances don't have a battery backup for the time. It costs less than 50 cents and requires the battery be changed no more than every 20 years. But still every time the power goes out I need to reset my clocks.

[deleted]

Re: 60 kHz (2022)

#66

Post by LeoPanthera »

Sadly, WWVB is damaged. At midnight on April 7, 2024, WWVB's south antenna was disabled due to damage sustained during high winds. WWVB now broadcasts exclusively from the north antenna, at a reduced power of 30kW. This situation is expected to continue "indefinitely", presumably because of a lack of budget for repairs.

Re: 60 kHz (2022)

#67

Post by jimbobimbo »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #66

Sadly, WWVB is damaged. At midnight on April 7, 2024, WWVB's south antenna was disabled due to damage sustained during high winds. WWVB now broadcasts exclusively from the north antenna, at a reduced power of 30kW. This situation is expected to continue "indefinitely", presumably because of a lack of budget for repairs.

This looks like a great candidate for crowd funding.

Re: 60 kHz (2022)

#68

Post by [deleted] »

lxgr wrote: post #63
V99 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They usually have an offset and a DST option. So in Arizona you'd choose -7/Off, and never touch it again. In Colorado you'll have to toggle DST twice a year manually, because it doesn't know the rules for when it starts/ends.

Oh, is there no “DST in effect” flag in the signal? As I understand it, the US switches at the same day across the country (for the states that do have it), so that should theoretically be possible.

[deleted]
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