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Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

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Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#191

Are they just banking on people not caring enough or knowing about the refund process? Clearly it can't be better off for them to refund hundreds of thousands maybe even 1m+ people. We need laws that step in to make this impossible. Hardware should be designed so that it can be reused. Make it so that people can just reflash the memory at a minimum. There's no reason for something like this to become e-waste. And the…

It's a face saving move. They decided to just kill the thing less than 2 years after the launching. But people got angry, and having regulators look at them is way more expensive than refunding their customers.

That said, yes, they will probably also make the process as hard as they can get away with it. Anyway, have some popcorn, this one got quite interesting.

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is going to be a hot take here, but honestly I'm not that concerned about e-waste, in the grand scheme of things. What about cars, air conditioners, dishwashers, fridges, furniture, clothing? What about when we throw all of those out? The amount of e-waste I've gotten rid of over my life is miniscule both in terms of weight and volume in comparison to the things I've listed. I think we confuse environmental impa…

Over the past 10 years I've recycled all of my large appliances. My (texas) city comes and picks them up at no charge, and I don't feel that's an unusual situation.

I'm a bit skeptical about them actually being recycled though. How many of the appliances are recyclable? What parts of them are vs what ends up in the dump? Everything I've heard - and admittedly I haven't looked too deep - is that recycling is mostly a sham and mostly just ends up as waste either here or shipped overseas for someone else to deal with.

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#193
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is going to be a hot take here, but honestly I'm not that concerned about e-waste, in the grand scheme of things. What about cars, air conditioners, dishwashers, fridges, furniture, clothing? What about when we throw all of those out? The amount of e-waste I've gotten rid of over my life is miniscule both in terms of weight and volume in comparison to the things I've listed. I think we confuse environmental impa…

yes. it's been obvious for a long time that "but the e-waste" is almost universally deployed as an argumentary "get out of jail free" card that is intended to be impossible to argue against, even when there isn't actually an improvement in the energy/waste lifecycle or when the improvement is overall trivial. it's funny that the tech community of all places have embraced greenwashing so heavily, particularly when mos…

> people just want a foolproof "your product is bad" that can't be argued against, and e-waste/pollution is a great card to play, especially when it's selectively applied and you refuse to admit any of the foibles of the products you prefer.

It's not selectively applied, though. We want legislative change that legitimately forces the worst actors, Apple, Samsung and Google included, to be forced to-heel since they won't respond naturally. This was the root of all contemporary right-to-repair action proposed in the United States.

Since you seem to be locked-in on the pugilism of Apple versus Android, let's abstract things a bit. Look at John-Deere, a company hell-bent on destroying Malthusian agriculture by exploiting farmers that need tractor repairs. Their first-party exclusive repair scheme has cost people entire harvests, fields of food that could have fed hundreds of households. The reason they can't recalibrate their drivetrain? The computer that does that (over USB by the way) is in a technicians truck, and they're two states over. And John-Deere would rather blow up your tractor than give lowly old you the ability to do that. And put their licensed technicians out of work, that pay a pretty penny to be certified officially? And destroy the aftermarket repair business that they have artificially created? It's madness, unless you look at it from any perspective but the business'.

This is why Apple gets perennially dragged by right-to-repair pundits; whether you want to admit it or not, they create this problem for themselves and then scream Bloody Mary when someone suggests their status-quo is exploitative.

> Also, the actual nuclear-hot take: even lightning was not really a big deal

Then why are you still talking about it? Lightning is dead because Apple charged people a license fee to use USB, like a fucking moron. Of course they were going to be legislated into compliance once their lobbyists can't convince the EU that a serial cable is some magical proprietary technology that must be protected by their patents. They played stupid-ball and lost, the last vestiges of Lightning's influence is that I'm forced to buy new cables (that I don't need btw) to charge my Apple peripherals when they break. And why don't those use USB-C? Definitely not because Apple was trying to artificially enforce ecosystem lock-in by demanding the purchase of licensed USB cables. Definitely not... it was because, uhh... the connector is wear-resistant! People don't want it! They made a promise 10 years ago! Definitely. Wait, what was their excuse with the Mac again...?

You could explain this away with 10 more paragraphs of philosophizing on the state of electronic garbage, but the simplest conclusion is that our societal goals are not in alignment with our businesses and it is our moral imperative to democratically legislate a new standard. The alternative is letting the broken tractors pile up while sitting on our asses like we're idiots that don't understand what's happening.

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#194
This is really a clear place for robust regulation. No company has a genuine incentive to ever give up proprietary designs in the current environment, even for devices they no longer sell or support. Places that do are going against the grain of investment capital, and their commitments are often broken when they are acquired

I think a simple rule could easily suffice here:

All firmware and schematics must be made available to regulatory agencies to put a device containing a digital computer on the market at all. That info can be sealed until a device is no longer sold, except for devices that need to meet higher safety standards (cars, medical devices, some kinds of home automation, definitely anything operating heavy machinery or infrastructure), in which case this is made publicly available as soon as the device goes to market

Also, repeal DMCA 1201 in its entirety. The government has no obligation to protect business models with the force of the state

We already enforce safety and environmental standards on manufactured products. This is a no-brainer

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#195
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logitech seem to be crazy about user support somehow. I had one of their old Harmony IR remote controls, and when they discontinued the software used for programming the older generations of remotes, they sent me a brand new remote free of charge .

I put my Logitech MX keyboard in the bag with few other things and one of the keycap broke off. Completely my fault. Since the key mechanism was intact I have told their support what happened and asked if they sell replacement keycaps and got completely new keyboard for free. Great support but I was left with mixed feelings since I still had almost completely working keyboard and I think the experience would be bette…

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Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logitech seem to be crazy about user support somehow. I had one of their old Harmony IR remote controls, and when they discontinued the software used for programming the older generations of remotes, they sent me a brand new remote free of charge .

Stories like this will make me more comfortable trying Logitech products in the future (I say as I look around the room at the 3 Logitech nice within 10ft of me). I’ve been hesitant to buy things like smart remotes, or other things in similar categories, because so many companies have poor track records around support. Good support does more than advertising ever could for me.

A counter story: The battery in a Logitech wireless headset I had died under warranty. To send a replacement, Logitech would have had me "destroy" my existing headset and send pictures as proof. Given that interaction, and how quickly the wireless headset died, I am very wary of buying Logitech products, personally.

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#197
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What passivity ignores is non voters get screwed over by politicians. In California in 2022 voting by age breaks down: 29% or 900,000 18-24 year olds 43% or 1,970,000 25-34 year olds 51% or 2,132,000 35-44 year olds 56% or 4,343,000 45-54 year olds 66% or 3,699,000 65+ year olds So it’s obvious what kinds of things to focus on. Other states get even more extreme only 14% of 18-24 year olds voted in WV. https://www.kf…

I don’t really see a problem with that. People get wiser as they get older and more mature. This has been proven by insurance companies, who charge higher rates for younger drivers since they’re more likely to be reckless and get into an accident. Not the kind of person you would want to encourage to vote, unless you have ulterior motives to manipulate impressionable young people.

I can ramble a little about it, I don't know how much water it'll hold.

First, as an adult who is otherwise held to certain responsibilities, we've already decided "they are the kind of person we want to vote..." unless they're a felon or something.

The social contract says the people/law abiding adult citizens aren't to be subjugated. They get to defend themselves and vote. Not some of them. All.

With well-meaning attitudes like yours - applying insurance risk/pooling to rights - we manage to treat criminals too poorly. That's not hyperbole. The wider practice is so disgusting I'm announcing my choice to move on before I allow this to degrade.

Second, it's a numbers game. There's safety in the padding they provide simply by taking power away from zealots. There are more than two potential outcomes - good/bad. Shades.

Finally, how is one to learn if not by participation?

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#198

I used the support link provided. They tried to give me 3 months of premium instead of a refund. I declined. They replied: >Thank you for waiting! As I can only suggest you for free Premium in your account. The actual Car Thing refund is done by the specialty advisors, so I'll create a case related to your issue and transfer it and the right team will get back to you through email. Sounds good? So I am now waiting fo…

When the Fitbit Ionic had a recall, I applied for a refund 2 years later, sent in the watch (you have to mail it), and it took months to get my cash. I wouldn't hold my breath, it might take a while, which I think is fine, so long as they get it done.

Why is it okay for a company worth tens of billions of dollars to drag their feet issuing a refund that can be done promptly?

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current U.S. economic system doesn't support or incentivize caring about those things. Would you advocate for a system or policies that does incentivize it?

Not the person you responded to, but I would totally be onboard taxing companies in a way that more accurately reflects their environmental impact. As it stands products are artificially cheap because we're not factoring in environmental sustainability.

Wireless earbuds are going to be filling landfills soon. They have become near unrepairable as of late and once the batteries inside barely last 15 min, people will just trash them and get new ones. At least wired headphones could be used for decades without issue.

Re: Spotify won't open-source Car Thing, but starts refund process

#200

When I read stories about companies like Spotify creating e-waste like this, I think it’s worth pointing out that commercial companies don’t have to behave this way. As a counter-point, back around 2008, I purchased two Squeezebox music players from Logitech (digital music players that Logitech had acquired from Slim Devices: high quality DACs that supported every audio format, gap-less playback, synchronised playing…

Logitech seem to be crazy about user support somehow. I had one of their old Harmony IR remote controls, and when they discontinued the software used for programming the older generations of remotes, they sent me a brand new remote free of charge .

They're expensive and generally fairly mid range in performance/fit/finish. I would hope the service is good, honestly.

They do deserve some praise, but I also don't want the bar on the floor. Things would be better if more were like Logitech.

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