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US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

arstechnica.com

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Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#131

Post by pyre »

wissler wrote: post #99
SkyMarshal wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same sort of stuff used to happen during the Cold War with the Soviets [1]. Cold War doesn't mean no loss of life or destruction, just that there aren't two armies going at it on the battlefield. 1. http://www.damninteresting.com/the-farewell-dossier/

"Cold War doesn't mean no loss of life or destruction, just that there aren't two armies going at it on the battlefield" If so, then "cold" vs. "hot" would be a distinction without a difference. I don't think the populace is generally educated to think that a "cold war" means "overt attacks on the enemy producing destruction and death." Rather, I think most people think that "cold war" means heightened political/mili…

The "cold" distinction is that there are no open hostilities. There are hostilities wrapped in plausible deniability, and found through proxy wars (Korea, Vietnam, etc).

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#132

Post by netcan »

slurgfest wrote: post #30
netcan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some things are a question of right, some things are a question of need or interest. The US has enemies and it doesn't want them to have nuclear weapons.

Because it could ONLY be the US which doesn't want Iran to have nuclear weapons (or for that matter, all of the Middle East to be in a nuclear arms race). Right?

No. Several countries & it's not entirely straightforward telling which.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#133

Post by salimmadjd »

joshmaker wrote: post #20
Fizzadar wrote: post #4

This feels similar to the Megaupload case; America desperately throwing its weight around outside it's borders, with a total disregard for the law. And, just like the Megaupload case, they have fucked up big time. Why does the American govt. feel it has the right to choose who can become a nuclear power or not anyway?

Because Iran is a signatory of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treat ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treat... ) and their development of Nuclear weapons is thus in violation of international law.

>>and their development of Nuclear weapons is thus in violation of international law.

What development of nuclear weapons? They have not developed anything.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#134

Post by [deleted] »

joshmaker wrote: post #20
Fizzadar wrote: post #4

This feels similar to the Megaupload case; America desperately throwing its weight around outside it's borders, with a total disregard for the law. And, just like the Megaupload case, they have fucked up big time. Why does the American govt. feel it has the right to choose who can become a nuclear power or not anyway?

Because Iran is a signatory of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treat ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treat... ) and their development of Nuclear weapons is thus in violation of international law.

[deleted]

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#135

Post by irishcoffee »

jpxxx wrote: post #125
andylei wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Both of which condemn the US and Israel. Not Iran. you know, its possible that the US, Israel, AND Iran are all doing bad things. just because Iran is not being condemned by a some media organizations does not mean it has any meaningful high ground. why are you skeptical that iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons? if they weren't, why would they be developing secret enrichment facilities? why would "The IAEA B…

It is a stone cold, dead in the ground for a decade, crystalline clear FACT that Iran has no nuclear weapon manufacturing program, and no plausible capacity to engage in one in the near future. Period, full stop, end telegram. Armed with this certainty, you can now begin to answer the rest of your questions for yourself.

So, I heard the world is flat.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#136

Post by staunch »

ruttingchimpanz wrote: post #104
philiphodgen wrote: post #82

The fact that the NYT published this piece is interesting. Assume all details are true. Why did the dog bark rather than choose to be silent? And the sources. Assume all of this is true? Why feed the info to the NYT? When coupled with recent revelations that Mr. Obama personally approves every killing of militants (for certain strained definitions of that term), the upcoming election springs to mind as a motivation.…

Former election strategist here. This is part of the Obama-Is-Tough roll-out, clearly done with current admin participation. Timed release to follow the "kill list" story and maybe even pre-empt the terrible jobs report. All the same, it's pretty stunning that the Obama administration would trade its (public) plausible deniability on Stuxnet in order to "look tough" on America's enemies. Playing fast and loose with f…

Iran already knew who did it. Everyone did. Why not take credit?

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#138

Post by wissler »

pyre wrote: post #131
wissler wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Cold War doesn't mean no loss of life or destruction, just that there aren't two armies going at it on the battlefield" If so, then "cold" vs. "hot" would be a distinction without a difference. I don't think the populace is generally educated to think that a "cold war" means "overt attacks on the enemy producing destruction and death." Rather, I think most people think that "cold war" means heightened political/mili…

The "cold" distinction is that there are no open hostilities. There are hostilities wrapped in plausible deniability, and found through proxy wars (Korea, Vietnam, etc).

"No open hostilities" is a definition by non-essentials. It's fallacious. As I already said and as you failed to address.

Whether certain people happen to know whether there is an attack or who is behind it does not change anything. A state of knowledge does not change the reality: someone is planning and attacking.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#139

Post by jpxxx »

irishcoffee wrote: post #135
jpxxx wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a stone cold, dead in the ground for a decade, crystalline clear FACT that Iran has no nuclear weapon manufacturing program, and no plausible capacity to engage in one in the near future. Period, full stop, end telegram. Armed with this certainty, you can now begin to answer the rest of your questions for yourself.

So, I heard the world is flat.

And I heard there's an organization called the IAEA that's unaffiliated with any particular nation-state that's been at the center of this extremely contentious global issue that would agree with exactly what I said, because that's exactly what they're saying, so uh, enjoy your limp sarcasm.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#140

Post by Fizzadar »

hieronymusN wrote: post #18
Fizzadar wrote: post #4

This feels similar to the Megaupload case; America desperately throwing its weight around outside it's borders, with a total disregard for the law. And, just like the Megaupload case, they have fucked up big time. Why does the American govt. feel it has the right to choose who can become a nuclear power or not anyway?

To play Devil's Advocate: How did they "fuck up big time"? From what I can tell from press coverage Stuxnet did exactly what it was supposed to do - damage centrifuges at Natanz.

I would say that because it spread beyond Natanz it was a big fuck up :)
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