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1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

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Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#71
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Number munchers, Oregon trail, Odell Lake, Rocky’s Boots, LOGO, Carmen San Diego… My 1980s education technology was kick ass

Super Munchers, Outnumbered, Operation Neptune, Wild Science Arcade, and Mario Teaches Typing blowmp blowmp Da-da-daah! POW! :)

> Operation Neptune

Oh man, I played the heck out of that game, but somehow I keep forgetting it existed. (Unlike, say, Myst or Wing Commander.) I think I beat it, but if so I'm suspect it might have involved a lot of trial-and-error regarding math questions I wasn't ready for.

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#72
The article comes off as mostly clickbait TBH. I live in San Francisco, our school system here stinks.

I'd say about 25% of the teachers at my kid's school are incompetent so that kinda lines up with 1:4 saying "technology bad". It took the pandemic for the school system to come 20 years into the future technology wise and they're still at least 15 years behind.

I honestly wouldn't trust a teacher to tell me what the future should be or if something is good or bad...

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#73

At the moment, the real killer use-case for the current generation of AI agents (Claude, Gemini, ChatGPT) is when you know you don't know something AND you have a specific task to get done. Some examples in past week: 1. Claude: "Why is this code failing typechecking in typescript" -> gives me detailed reasons why, teaches me about some things I didn't know about, and solves the problem for me while uplevelling my un…

The problem is that you have a sense of what a correct and what an incorrect answer is.

When you go and ask it for some assembly code ChatGPT will happily mix Intel and ARM instructions.

And if you don't have a frame of reference you can spend quite a big amount of time figuring out what is wrong.

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#74
post #59

What a clickbait title. According to the article: * 25% more harm than good * 32% equal mix harm and good * 35% are not sure * 6% more good than harm (Yes, those do not add to 100%, but 98% is close enough.) I came here looking for a fight, but this article does not back up any use of AI in teaching. I hope that commentators will write about SPECIFIC ideas they have for AI in education (pro or con). Right now we are…

> most of the best maths students I know are good at arithmetic/mental math even though we have had replacements for that since the 70s (at least).

Well, consider (for example) the SAT. It used to have math sections both with and without a calculator. Then COVID hit, and e.g. MIT discontinued SAT altogether - now the SAT is back, but all digital and the math section is all-calculator. To me this suggests that computers have integrated into society to the point where one's ability without them is seen as irrelevant. This isn't to say that there aren't holdouts who still advocate traditional pen-and-paper testing, just that they are no longer mainstream. Similarly, I would say for programming, if the questions you are asking to determine if they understand "the foundations of programming" can be easily answered with Copilot or ChatGPT, they are probably bad questions.

As far as teaching, there has always been strong evidence that people can learn math effectively just by playing with their calculators. http://ti-researchlibrary.com/Lists/TI%20Education%20Technol... I certainly learned a few things that way. It is the same way with Copilot - you can actually learn a lot of programming just by playing with it and seeing what "real code" looks like. When you mention fluency, I think you forget how it works - first you write things, then you get used to it and become more fluent. Copilot assists greatly with that first step of learning.

Now it is true, some teachers aren't really good with the Socratic method and other techniques of fostering self-guided learning, but if it is a binary "full access / no access" I would argue full access is better, like how students can apparently use their phones to goof off in class all day without any repercussions (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40495673). There are people who will misuse the access but it is not clear if they would learn anything even without access - it could be that they would just find other ways to ignore the teacher. And meanwhile the rest will benefit significantly - they can look up concepts, ask ChatGPT questions, etc.

And as far as "deep understanding" and the "ability to think and plan abstractly", barely anybody has that, that is not taught in schools. I mean sure there is the watered-down definition of "solve word problems and write essays" or whatever passes for understanding these days, but most of the kids coming out of school are nowhere near the next Einstein, even if they got straight A's. edit: maybe the ability to plan is taught in military training, it's certainly not part of a regular school curriculum.

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#75

At the moment, the real killer use-case for the current generation of AI agents (Claude, Gemini, ChatGPT) is when you know you don't know something AND you have a specific task to get done. Some examples in past week: 1. Claude: "Why is this code failing typechecking in typescript" -> gives me detailed reasons why, teaches me about some things I didn't know about, and solves the problem for me while uplevelling my un…

They gave us the go-ahead at work last week so I tried to use ChatGPT today on a task. It failed, and failed, and failed, over and over again. I kept prompting it, telling it where it was wrong, and why it was wrong, and then it would say something trite like, "Got it! Let's update the logic to reflect $THING_I_SAID_TO_IT..." and then it would just regurgitate the exact same broken code over and over again.

It was an absolute waste of my time. I quite like it when I need to get some piece of weird information out of it about the Python standard library or whatever but whenever I try to get it to do anything useful with code it fumbles the bag so hard.

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#77
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who also went through the public school system and who was able to get into an ivy league school off of that education, maybe you should show some more respect to the people doing the work of education for shit pay.

How exactly does your ivy league have any relevance? Anyways, maybe 1 in 7 of my teachers were great people and I appreciate them immensely, but I had so, so many bad teachers. I had several teachers who would throw on vaguely relevant tv every class instead of teaching. Overall, most of them didn’t seem interested in teaching us, nor did they seem very informed outside of the class material. I don’t think they’re te…

It's a quality signal. Not all my teachers were good and the system is underfunded, but most of turn cared about the students and I'm incredibly thankful for the education they gave me. I trust the opinions of people teaching kids everyday a lot more than I trust the average hacker news comment.

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#78
post #75

At the moment, the real killer use-case for the current generation of AI agents (Claude, Gemini, ChatGPT) is when you know you don't know something AND you have a specific task to get done. Some examples in past week: 1. Claude: "Why is this code failing typechecking in typescript" -> gives me detailed reasons why, teaches me about some things I didn't know about, and solves the problem for me while uplevelling my un…

They gave us the go-ahead at work last week so I tried to use ChatGPT today on a task. It failed, and failed, and failed, over and over again. I kept prompting it, telling it where it was wrong, and why it was wrong, and then it would say something trite like, "Got it! Let's update the logic to reflect $THING_I_SAID_TO_IT..." and then it would just regurgitate the exact same broken code over and over again. It was an…

An interaction like this led me to cancel my chatgpt subscription.

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#79
post #75

At the moment, the real killer use-case for the current generation of AI agents (Claude, Gemini, ChatGPT) is when you know you don't know something AND you have a specific task to get done. Some examples in past week: 1. Claude: "Why is this code failing typechecking in typescript" -> gives me detailed reasons why, teaches me about some things I didn't know about, and solves the problem for me while uplevelling my un…

They gave us the go-ahead at work last week so I tried to use ChatGPT today on a task. It failed, and failed, and failed, over and over again. I kept prompting it, telling it where it was wrong, and why it was wrong, and then it would say something trite like, "Got it! Let's update the logic to reflect $THING_I_SAID_TO_IT..." and then it would just regurgitate the exact same broken code over and over again. It was an…

You have to start from scratch. The training data has many examples of almost directly copied blocks of text and code and the model will tend to just repeat itself after several iterations.

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#80
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly does your ivy league have any relevance? Anyways, maybe 1 in 7 of my teachers were great people and I appreciate them immensely, but I had so, so many bad teachers. I had several teachers who would throw on vaguely relevant tv every class instead of teaching. Overall, most of them didn’t seem interested in teaching us, nor did they seem very informed outside of the class material. I don’t think they’re te…

It's a quality signal. Not all my teachers were good and the system is underfunded, but most of turn cared about the students and I'm incredibly thankful for the education they gave me. I trust the opinions of people teaching kids everyday a lot more than I trust the average hacker news comment.

Glad you had good teachers man idk.
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